Africans with sunken stomachs

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bmarine

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
993
Location
Michigan
Hey guys, so in my 125 gallon, it seems that all of my fish are eating, however they just seem to be getting skinnier and their stomachs are sunken in. Is this probably internal worms (nematodes/roundworms)? What should I treat them with? and finally, will treatment help return their stomachs back to normal?
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Can't see any pics but without a "good " diagnosis I would move right on to praziquantel.
A safe wormer.
Needs to be overdosed like 500% to cause trouble from my readings.
Make sure no worms are sticking out of the fish anus(camalanus)as different meds wopuld be needed IMO.
 
If the fish are eating, there isn't any reclusive behavior, or other signs such as stingy white feces(not a great sign) then I would lean towards under feeding. I wouldn't treat anything until your certain there's an issue. I would increase the frequency and amount of food slightly over a couple of weeks and see if there is a difference.
 
sounds good. I do usually feed once a day 6 days a week, but I'll boost to twice a day 7 days a week and see what happens. They all seem to be eating, its just that they all just seem to be looking skinnier, which is worrying me. Even if they are still eating, could it be worms?
 
I've honestly never enounterd worms in decades of keeping fish. I'd increase the feedings and in a few weeks you'll see a difference.

What are you feeding?
 
I feed the Dainichi pellet (as far as I've researched, its high quality and comparable to NLS) and thenevery once in awhile I supplement with spirulina flakes and a frozen food Hikari Gammarus.
 
If the fish are eating, there isn't any reclusive behavior, or other signs such as stingy white feces(not a great sign) then I would lean towards under feeding. I wouldn't treat anything until your certain there's an issue. I would increase the frequency and amount of food slightly over a couple of weeks and see if there is a difference.

+1 I had my cichlids get sunken bellies after a while. Increasing the feedings worked like a charm. I would start there and give the increased feeding schedule at least 2 weeks (up to a month) to work and then see where you're at. Before and after pictures of the fish will help with this.
 
okay sounds good, I fed them twice today, and I'll take pictures tomorrow morning if that's alright. Any ideas to help improve their diet or does mine sound good? Should I vary my pellets and high quality foods or is just one pellet and spirulina flake sufficient?
 
If they stop eating you know you have a parasite problem. I have had to treat sunken belly on 2 fishes. They would take in the pellet and immediately spit it back out. If they reach that point you have to get a small tube and syringe and squirt general cure (flagyl and praziquantel) into their stomach a few times for a day or two until they start holding food down again. Hope you don't get to this point though! Wouldn't hurt to bump up the temp too, not too many parasites that like 84-86 degree water.
 
Okay, so I've been feeding twice a day for 2 days now. Already a lot of the smaller peacocks are looking better, however, not much change in the haps, especially the mylochromis. Also, while watching them, I saw a couple strings of white feces floating around. Whats my next move?
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Stringy white feces is a great indication of a digestive issue but it does not always mean internal parasites, what your actually seeing is the lining of the intestinal track. This irritation can be caused by improper diet, low quality foods, and ofcourse internal parasites. So the treatment is not a one size fits all I'm afraid.

If at anytime you start to see other symptoms such as refusing to eat or mouthing food, reclusive behavior, or acting lethargic then treatment may be needed but for now just keep doing what your doing.

I'm not a fan of your food choice.

The key is high quality easily digestable proteins. So when your looking for foods it's not about the protein percentage, but rather the quality of the proteins themselves. Food that derives it's protein from high soybean, corn, wheat flour and other fillers is not nearly as digestible as a high quality pellet that utilizes the entire fish not just the left over bi-products from other industries; such as Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Squid Meal is what your looking for. Coincidentally that's the same stuff New Life Spectrum uses, I'd feed that exclusively and call it a day.

Here is list of Dianchi ingredients: Not a very impressive list:

White fish meal, wheat germ, wheat flour, krill, spirulina, soybean meal, brewer’s yeast, calcium montmorillonite clay, powdered milk, vitamin mix, mineral mix, garlic, protease and natural gum.

One of the biggest differences in fish foods is where the main protein ingredients derive from. Is it fish meal or whole fish meal, fish meal consists primarily and potentially exclusively of scales, skins, and bones where as whole meal utilizes the entire fish not simply the left over bi-products from other industries; remember what old old saying about what hotdogs were made from(lips and butts) same applies here. What you looking for is quality highly digestible ingredients such as Whole Antarctic krill meal.

The most important fact to remember here is that fish digestive systems are designed to handle certain proteins. Freshwater/Marine proteins and fats are very different than their mammal counterparts. Their digestive systems are well designed so that if the food is of a protein that can not be digested properly it will simply be expell this excess immediately. The primarily function of breaking down food is a provide energy, that which can't be processed generates a lot of waste since they're expelling what can't be used to benefit the fishes body. Proteins are made of amino acids which contain nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, so as the fish is breaking these non-native foods down they in turn make a lot more nitrogenous waste which as everyone knows will effect water quality.

The last couple of points I will make are:

Another large issue comes into play with regards to fillers and binding agents. You'll even see some lower end products which use multiple types of wheat, the ingredient list follows a practice known as product splitting, with three different wheat products listed. When combined, wheat may very well be the primary ingredient. Which is by no means the building block of a quality product.

The last point I'll make is the ash content, ash comes from bones and shells, the percentage of ash at 10% or higher usually indicates left over white fish, shrimp or loster heads are used rather than the entire fish again. Since the fish food market is self regulated you'll even see some brands leave the ash content off since they're not bound by any laws; if you see this its not fit to feed any living creature.
 
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^^^HOLY YES!!!^^^(y)
Find out what is in your food!:facepalm:
Can't say it better^^^.:whistle:
This article (link) will not say it better(but very close!);

Fish Food Ingredients
then find your food if it is there in the 0-6 star fish food page.
Hukkit really cut to the quick again!
Long article but you really wouldn't believe what they put in our fish food!
(y)
 
Interesting article coralbandit! The Dainichi pellets seem to fall under 5 and 4 star foods, which is about the same as the NLS pellets also.
Hukit, thanks for all the info, I definitely see your point! Looking at the package for my pellets, I see some Wheat splitting going on with wheat flour and germ, and the only really beneficial ingredients seem to be the white fish meal, krill meal, and the spirulina--with the quality of the white fish and krill meals being unknown. I'm going to pick up and try some NLS tomorrow at my LFS, What kind should I get (Thera A, Cichlid formula, large fish formula)?
Also, So far most of the fish seem to be eating fine, however, I have seen some mouthing of food with the mylochromis and Taiwan reef. I'm fairly certain that they did eat some, but I definitely saw them spitting out some of what they'd grab. Could that also be because the pellets are maybe too solid for them? Would it help to soak and soften the food a little first? All the other fish really seem to be fine, and I still see the mylochromis showing off his colors and nipping at the others, and not really any other behaviors that are worrying me.
 
So if my fish has long white hair like "poo"... combined with hanging out in the corner plant all day... probably a parasite of some sort?

I just noticed it hanging out by itself yesterday and today it has the white "poo"

If parasite, do i treat the whole tank? I have acei fry in this tank as well as a metriaclima estherea holding a batch...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
Yes, they may have parasites but keep watching and you may have to treat the tank. But, if you need assistance, please start your own thread and don't jump on mine. Thank you
 
No sense in starting the same thread over...

Now back to the subject...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
Thanks guys. Alright, so back to the topic, what would probably be the best kind of NLS to try? I'm guessing Cichlid Formula 2mm?
 
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