Angelfish Question

[GouramiFanatic]

Thanks, do you think I should dose the tank with some Melafix or just let things heal up on their own?

 

[jrp1588]

You'd be surprised at their healing capabilities. Here's a picture of my big male a few months back.

He got into a fight with another male in the tank and his dorsal was badly tattered. I took him out of the tank and made it a clean straight cut with some sharp scissors...sounds barbaric, I know, but it was really the best thing for him. I used no meds what so ever, just kept the water clean and increased the temp, and fed him well. His dorsal has almost completely regrown now

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Wow, he's a very nice looking boy! His markings are what I was hoping to find when I got my Angels, but I got to impatient to keep waiting. I'm happy with my foursome though. They're becoming cuter and cuter to me everyday.

Doesn't it hurt them to have their fins trimmed? I don't think I could bring myself to do it!

 

[jrp1588]

I'm sure it did hurt. He jumped when I did it, and I felt terrible, but his fin was basically in ribbons and wouldn't have grown back properly. I did a lot of research before I did it and it seemed like the best thing. I wouldn't to yours though, thy have petty clean cuts.

edit:looking at the picture more closely, it appears his anal fin has also been trimmed....it isn't, he was just turning and the upper part of the fin covered the lower

 

[kribensis12]

^ They appear to have bad blood lines. There is no damage from other fish, that is just bad gene's.

 

[jrp1588]

That could be as well, but I can see some fin rays extending beyond the main part of the fin in the last one. This is exactly what my male looked like when he was healing.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

^ They appear to have bad blood lines. There is no damage from other fish, that is just bad gene's.

They're from a pet store so who knows where they really came from or what lines they come from, but how can you be 100% sure of this statement? I mean, it is possible that there were other fish in the tank at the lfs or perhaps even the supplier they came from. Torn fins can and do happen (I'm sure) to the healthiest of fish. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'bad genes'. That's just me though and I'm by no means an expert or else I would have no reason to be here.

 

[kribensis12]

Well, i am freinds with a angel breeder ( raises over a 1000) and have kept some angels pesonally( never succsefully bred though), and from what i have seen through experience, and the pictures i have seen from the breeder, those angel's you bought are very poor quality. Which is why the fins aren't very long. A small angels fins should look like this:

I bought that little female over a year ago ( gave her away recently). She was in a tank with some 20 other angels, many which were lareger than here. Her fins were not small, or deformed. Also, see the rich color? Your's are lacking that. The only angel of reasonable quality( if your looking into breeding, that is, is your blushing Koi).

The angels are still pretty, but i wouldn't breed them. You don't want deformed fry( or ones that carry the gene) going through the lfs.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Keep in mind that I use a flash to photograph my fish which does effect the coloration. I also process the photos to my liking which may be brighter than what they *really* look like. Looking at them right now in their tank they do have a silverish color and the stripes are black. If I took photos they'd be more of a fainter gray because of the flash. So, I don't think the coloration is a good argument in this case.

I'm not at all intending on breeding them and chances are they won't want to breed anyway because my water is harder than what they prefer for breeding from what I've read.

As for the fins, like I said nobody knows who was in the same tank as them so it's possible they may have suffered some fin damage from the the time they were at the 'breeders" then to the lfs and finally to my house. Also, I always thought that different breeds of angels have different fin lengths. Am I wrong in that?

 

[jrp1588]

That angel has some vertical fins, that's crazy. Comparing the color seems a little odd though since yours is obviously of a different color variety. I'm not saying his angels are top show quality or anything, but to me it looks like the fins were damaged at some point. Give it a month or so and see how things progress.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

I'm not saying his angels are top show quality or anything

Just had to add... I'm a her not a him...

 

[jrp1588]

Indeed, there are several different fin types. Yours are all standard wild type fins which are the shortest. The next step up are veils, this is the kind I keep. Beyond that there are superveils which are basically a fish homozygous for the veil gene.

edit: sorry about the gender confusion, I think I even knew you were a girl from the way you write. my bad. haha

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Ah, don't worry about it. I don't mind. I'm just getting a little defensive over what's being said about my little ones. Kind of funny, they're only fish and I feel that I have to defend them.... LOL

 

[kribensis12]

Keep in mind that I use a flash to photograph my fish which does effect the coloration. I also process the photos to my liking which may be brighter than what they *really* look like. Looking at them right now in their tank they do have a silverish color and the stripes are black. If I took photos they'd be more of a fainter gray because of the flash. So, I don't think the coloration is a good argument in this case.

I'm not at all intending on breeding them and chances are they won't want to breed anyway because my water is harder than what they prefer for breeding from what I've read.

As for the fins, like I said nobody knows who was in the same tank as them so it's possible they may have suffered some fin damage from the the time they were at the 'breeders" then to the lfs and finally to my house. Also, I always thought that different breeds of angels have different fin lengths. Am I wrong in that?

The editing may be why they appear so washed out. I would have loved to breed that angel in the pic, but my water is at a ph of 8.6 and Kha nd Gh are so high, they don't read. I even tried R/O, but that didn't work either.
There are 2 different varaties of fin length. There are Veil Tailed ( need a minnimum of 18 inch depth because of risk of fin damage), and then regular. That angel is a regular. It MAY be damage, but from what I have seen, that is permnant. I owuld like to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Here is a fin length example:

She was a Veiled tail. Her veil tailed gene wasn't very strong, as the fins didn't grow as long as they could if the gene was completely dominant.

This is my baby angel, all grown up. She is just a regular Pterphylum Scalare.

 

[jrp1588]

Fin damage certainly isn't permanent. My male up there has completely regrown his dorsal fin and his was way more damaged than any of hers. And there are 3 fin varieties, but only 2 genes that control the trait, V and +. V is the veil gene and + is the wild gene. V is dominant to +. A +/+ is a standard tail. V/+ is a veil. V/V is a superveil which is what I'm currently breeding for.

That is a superveil. Much longer finnage than standard or veil.

 

[kribensis12]

I am not saying it's fin damage, i belive it's just poor gene's. That, you CANNOT reverse. I would love to be wrong, and have them grow out very nice, long fins.

 

[jrp1588]

ahh, ok, I misunderstood. It really could be either, and it doesn't really matter either way. Even if it is genetics they are still pretty fish and will make nice pets. Enjoy them! angels are great

 

[GouramiFanatic]

jrp1588 - I actually went out to that website that you posted with the different breeds of angels, but I got lost in it. I ended up emailing my photos to them and asked for Id's. Here's what they came back with in case you're interested...

http://www.whalesightings.com/angel5.jpg - koi aka gold marble blushing (Gm/g - S/S)
http://www.whalesightings.com/angel6.jpg - black ghost (D/+ - S/+)
http://www.whalesightings.com/angel7.jpg - black lace (D/+)
http://www.whalesightings.com/angel8.jpg - black lace (D/+)

Also, while I was already emailing them I decided to ask for their input on if they were in good shape or if they clearly showed signs of having poor genes and this is what they sent back...

It's hard to tell what quality they really are because they are very young and show signs of having been in overcrowded conditions and/or having been exposed to poor water quality. I don't see any obvious deformities on in any of the photos. Although fins are ragged and damaged, none of the fins appear to be bent. The operculi (gills covers) appear to be fully developed. The koi and one of the others appear to have somewhat elongated bodies, which is not considered good. But they are also quite young, and the bodies might round out more over the next few weeks. You'll just have to wait and see.

I do have a couple of questions... If they decide to spawn, at what age/size will they start to pair off? What do I look for while this is happening? Do they just chase everyone else away?

 

[jrp1588]

cool. Mine paired off when their bodies reached about the size of a half dollar. You'll notice a couple spending most all their time together. When they are ready to spawn they'll begin cleaning a spot in the tank...often a filter tube if you have a canister. From there it's a matter of days before they lay eggs