auratus

[snowman17]

It's been a few weeks thanks for the faith tho

 

[Jakepen]

Just saying, that's wrong to put an African cichlid in with a dominant SA hybrid, just because the African is dominant in his tank. That will just stress the peacock out. Usually the best course would be to re arrange the territory, maybe add a couple more fish, or if it comes down to it re home the over aggressive peacock. I'm sure you know this though, and you apparently have your own methods to deal with it, whatever works for you I suppose.

 

[severum mama]

Just saying, that's wrong to put an African cichlid in with a dominant SA hybrid, just because the African is dominant in his tank. That will just stress the peacock out. Usually the best course would be to re arrange the territory, maybe add a couple more fish, or if it comes down to it re home the over aggressive peacock. I'm sure you know this though, and you apparently have your own methods to deal with it, whatever works for you I suppose.

I agree (however, it's actually a hybrid of Central American cichlids). It isn't like putting a preschooler in time out. Fish don't "learn a lesson about bullying" by being bullied. They lack the physical structures in the brain needed to do so.

 

[snowman17]

I think he/she gets it now.

 

[Wy Renegade]

Incorrect, I have done this several times now and it has worked every time. Dominate fish is one thing, bullying is another. For this particular specimen he tried to eat a synodontis and take his spot, the syno won so the peacock turned his aggression against all the other sub dominant males. 5 minutes with the flowerhorn and he was willing to share the cave with the syno instead of run him out, and he also avoided confrontation with most of the other sub males, minus the Ahli. I would say before he was probably #3 on the pecking order, hes about #5 now. For arguments sake next time I will do before and afters to prove a point, I forgot you have to present hard facts now days.

You are implying that your fish is intelligent enough to figure out that if he bullies other fish, you are going to move him into another tank were a bigger fish is in turn going to bully him, and therefore he changes his behavior. This is in fact incorrect. Your fish does not have the ability to "learn" or to choose to change his behaviors long term. What you are doing is changing up dominance in the tank in which you are removing him from and stressing him out, which causes him to change his behavior, and most likely only for the short term. Fish work on instinct, not reason. The instinct inherit in African cichlids is to establish a territory and maintain it against all comers. Eventually, assuming it has suffered no severe injury or trauma, that auratus will once again rise to dominant the tank, it is their instinct. Subjecting him to the flowerhorn again still isn't going to learn the fish a thing. This is a classic case of pseudo science were you are attempting to apply intellect and reasoning ability to an organism that simply does not have that ability long term and assuming that the outcome means one thing, when in fact it means something totally different.

You can get a very similar result by simply netting the auratus and then changing up the hardscape of the tank. The auratus will be less dominant until it has chance to establish a new territory.

 

[snowman17]

You are implying that your fish is intelligent enough to figure out that if he bullies other fish, you are going to move him into another tank were a bigger fish is in turn going to bully him, and therefore he changes his behavior. This is in fact incorrect. Your fish does not have the ability to "learn" or to choose to change his behaviors long term. What you are doing is changing up dominance in the tank in which you are removing him from and stressing him out, which causes him to change his behavior, and most likely only for the short term. Fish work on instinct, not reason. The instinct inherit in African cichlids is to establish a territory and maintain it against all comers. Eventually, assuming it has suffered no severe injury or trauma, that auratus will once again rise to dominant the tank, it is their instinct. Subjecting him to the flowerhorn again still isn't going to learn the fish a thing. This is a classic case of pseudo science were you are attempting to apply intellect and reasoning ability to an organism that simply does not have that ability long term and assuming that the outcome means one thing, when in fact it means something totally different.

You can get a very similar result by simply netting the auratus and then changing up the hardscape of the tank. The auratus will be less dominant until it has chance to establish a new territory.

My auratus wasn't and never was the dominant fish, he was being over aggressive to the female, and a few other smaller fish. So that wasn't my problem and if I can get similar results by doing that why can't I remove him and then return him, almost like adding him to a new tank that's established. That route I took is just one of many I've learned to deal with him instead of just rehomeing him and not knowing if he gets a home or sits in the fish store till he dies, he's not causing injuries to any one but the female, even after they had several batches of fry. So I was just giving people a way if they were having the same problem. And no he wasn't injured or stressed and it's been several weeks and has yet to return to his old self maybe he will maybe he won't I'm doing more than most just to keep a fish, instead of dumping him on someone else. Also I don't think it takes 5 or 6 people to tell someone what they did is wrong, speaking on the flowerhorn thing.

 

[melosu58]

Just so we know everyone has the ability to post their opinion and experiences on this site. We might not agree but all we can do is post it and let the OP decide what he/she wants to do.

 

[Wy Renegade]

My auratus wasn't and never was the dominant fish, he was being over aggressive to the female, and a few other smaller fish. So that wasn't my problem and if I can get similar results by doing that why can't I remove him and then return him, almost like adding him to a new tank that's established. That route I took is just one of many I've learned to deal with him instead of just rehomeing him and not knowing if he gets a home or sits in the fish store till he dies, he's not causing injuries to any one but the female, even after they had several batches of fry. So I was just giving people a way if they were having the same problem. And no he wasn't injured or stressed and it's been several weeks and has yet to return to his old self maybe he will maybe he won't I'm doing more than most just to keep a fish, instead of dumping him on someone else. Also I don't think it takes 5 or 6 people to tell someone what they did is wrong, speaking on the flowerhorn thing.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with what you did, I was simply writing to inform you that you could simply have rearranged the tank after you netted him, or even just leave him in while you rearrange, and it will have the same effect. Most people don't like to go to that effort on a regular basis. Even netting a African out of a established tank is more of a chore than most people are willing to undertake. Like you, I was just giving people a method that works, that removes the fish for a shorter period and perhaps in some people's minds is a little less abusive. Sometimes removing a male will allow another male to become more dominant and thereafter the previous male never reestablishes that dominance or perhaps another male took over his territory. The point is there is a factual scientific reason for the change in behavior that has nothing to do with the fish learning. You may have solved your problem long term, but most likely, he is just trying to figure out how to reestablish his territory within the new scheme of things.

In regards to your thoughts on the flowerhorn situation, the purpose of this or any forum is to educate and inform. While several people had mentioned how unethical they thought the practice was, only one mentioned the intelligence factor and touched on the false assumptions that were being made. Since other people are reading the thread (many of whom are not commenting), I felt it was worthwhile to address the "hard fact" statement and reiterate the lack of long-term learning ability in fish. For me, its not about ethical or unethical so much as it is about the incorrect assumptions and addressing those.

 

[snowman17]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with what you did, I was simply writing to inform you that you could simply have rearranged the tank after you netted him, or even just leave him in while you rearrange, and it will have the same effect. Most people don't like to go to that effort on a regular basis. Even netting a African out of a established tank is more of a chore than most people are willing to undertake. Like you, I was just giving people a method that works, that removes the fish for a shorter period and perhaps in some people's minds is a little less abusive. Sometimes removing a male will allow another male to become more dominant and thereafter the previous male never reestablishes that dominance or perhaps another male took over his territory. The point is there is a factual scientific reason for the change in behavior that has nothing to do with the fish learning. You may have solved your problem long term, but most likely, he is just trying to figure out how to reestablish his territory within the new scheme of things.

In regards to your thoughts on the flowerhorn situation, the purpose of this or any forum is to educate and inform. While several people had mentioned how unethical they thought the practice was, only one mentioned the intelligence factor and touched on the false assumptions that were being made. Since other people are reading the thread (many of whom are not commenting), I felt it was worthwhile to address the "hard fact" statement and reiterate the lack of long-term learning ability in fish. For me, its not about ethical or unethical so much as it is about the incorrect assumptions and addressing those.

I respect what your saying, and I'm one of those people who change my scape almost every WC, and the method I chose was kinda to so just that let another male step up I have a lot of nice fish that don't show color because there low rank, and your right I'm sure he's plotting to get back lol but only time will tell, just like what you said in you second paragraph I wanted to try that method and share with people who might be having the same problem. We all know auratus are nuts and always end up being rehomed. Let me ask you this since I see you know your stuff what do you think of a all male tank? I've notched beside the little scraps they have over space the females bring the worst of out of my fish.

 

[Wy Renegade]

I respect what your saying, and I'm one of those people who change my scape almost every WC, and the method I chose was kinda to so just that let another male step up I have a lot of nice fish that don't show color because there low rank, and your right I'm sure he's plotting to get back lol but only time will tell, just like what you said in you second paragraph I wanted to try that method and share with people who might be having the same problem. We all know auratus are nuts and always end up being rehomed. Let me ask you this since I see you know your stuff what do you think of a all male tank? I've notched beside the little scraps they have over space the females bring the worst of out of my fish.

To be honest with you, I've never tried a all male set-up, as I don't really see the point. To me part of the joy of having a cichlid set-up is watching the reproductive and brooding behaviors of the fish. There is a lot of evidence on-line that says they are successful and you still get decent colors, so it might be worth a shot. Seems to me it would definitely eliminate some of those aggression issues.

 

[Jakepen]

I have an all male tank. I would of done a regular m and f tank but I dint have the resources to house fry. So they would just get eaten either way, each time. I have peacocks and haps, there colors are very nice. Bright metallic colors, always swimming around flexing there fins, trying to look bigger than the next male. Very little aggression, you can tell who the top dogs are, but they rarely chase, and never overly assault any one fish. Overall I'm happy, it's a tank with nothing but bright, male colors.

 

[snowman17]

I have mbuna tho and I'm going to try it out, hopefully it works out and yea I have one fry that's made it out of several batches. Granted I don't have the right m:f but still I see how hyper they get with the females I have, like my blue zebra who is like the number 3 fish has gone into crazy mode and has my schfolio cichlid holding. (spellcheck)