Cichlid planning

[Johnny Tuttle]

Hi, folks. I currently have the community set up in my signature....

I'm thinking seriously about buying a used tank to do something fun with cichlids in a second set up. My water is hard, and it goes through a softener, and so I'm thinking my most coveted fish--the German Blue Ram--is likely out although I may still try it. Two options I consider similarly attractive are kribs and convicts.

With kribs, I know I could and should add in some dither fish like zebras, dwarf rainbows, or white clouds and that the set up can be in a 21 g. Are kribs hard to find? There seems to be some debate about their need for brackish; does anyone know something from first hand experience? The concensus online seems to be that their needs for brackish is overstated; it's more that they can survive it than they actually need/want it. Am I right?

With convicts, can a single pair be kept in a 21 g? Do you need dither fish for convicts, or are they just too bullyish for that? And I keep seeing convict fry & juveniles for free from other fish keepers....will I just be looking for trouble dealing with the fry? The look of them is great--I'd go with earth eaters or Jack Dempseys for a similar effect, but I would much prefer to be looking for a 21-30 g tank instead of the 40+ for a JD. Could I keep a few females together to try to avoid having the convicts breeding?

The last option isn't really cichlids at all, but it could be fun: figure 8 puffers. Even here, people debate online whether or not they are true brackish. I just expect finding these to be hard, and I like live plants.

For both the kribs and the convicts, I would plan on 3 viralis spiralis in the middle & 3 in each corner. I would go with as dark a gravel as I can find without going to pure black, and I would add in rock & root structures in the middle. For both, I would either get a cave structure (opening facing sideways, not the front of the tank) or maybe a halved coconut shell (I assume you buy the ones for lizards at a LFS over just buying a coconut). I would prefer to not go with half clay flower pots if I didn't have to.

Thanks very much.

[Acer]

good ideas, I have a 125 community tank that was stocked with lots of smaller community fish. im trading basically all my fish for bigger cichlids, if I were you instead of convicts I would go with honduran redpoints they stay the same size are imo a whole lot prettier are less aggressive and still breed like rabbits. or if they are available there are nanolutians? not sure exactly what they are called but basically they are a yellow convict type like I asia with the hondurans they are less aggressive then convicts.. I think a pair of either ones will be fine in a tank that size

[Voodoo Chilli]

Kribs are native to the rivers and streams of west Africa and are not brackish, to my knowledge. I wouldn't expect them to be very tough to come by, as they are a fairly common fish. You could keep dithers with them, but I'd look at schooling tetras, rasboras, danios, etc. (Something that won't compete with the kribs over territory.) I love using white clouds as dithers, by the way.

A pair of cons will claim your tank and then quickly overpopulate it. I'd make sure you have an outlet for the hundreds and hundreds of fry a pair will crank out before going that route. Honduran Red Points and A. nanoluteus are similar in appearance, but they can be both hard to come by and expensive.

With all that being said, I'd probably recommend the kribs. They're really nice fish and I bet your local shop would take any grow outs you may acquire during spawning.

[Acer]

if your looking for a fish that down the line you might be able to gain more out of i would stay away from kribs since as your experience at the lfs shows they are a more common cichlid. when i start brainstorming on what to do next with my tank i also take into account poss resale value, we arent in it for the $$ and every hobbiest knows you cant live off of selling fish but you can make it easier on yourself when it comes down to buying new hardware. imo petstores will be more willing to take in something that isnt on their order list.

[Johnny Tuttle]

I'm more worried about the spawning than seeing it as a source of income/upgrades. Without independent LFSs in my area, I am heavily constrained in my ability even to give away fry of any kind to the chains. With kribs, which I've never seen in any store anywhere, I'm hopeful I'd be able to entice local keepers or stores with them as they seem rarer around here.

With convicts, can you keep multiple females peacefully together? I've read reports that females are peaceful enough for communities, but I've heard all sorts of advice here about straying from pairs only at your peril.

[Acer]

ok just a suggestion. i have no idea about convicts since my experiance is limited to honduran red points and A. nanoluteus. i can tell you that hrps and nanos arent going to killoff your other livestock..

[Johnny Tuttle]

Well, I wouldn't get these more aggressive fish at all until I have a second set-up, well, unless I try GBRs when and if I have room in my current community tank.

If I had a second set up with kribs, I'd likely try white clouds as dithers. If I have only female convicts, I might try green tiger barbs--but only if I hear that that is safe all around. Convicts seem to have quite the reputation for aggression, and I don't even know that females will peacefully coinhabit the same space.