Cichlid Tank

[ttimmer10]

any ideas on setting up a cichlid tank... what type of fish, how many and other creative thing to do. I have a 55g tank and want to do something different, but keep it fw.

thanks

 

[Menagerie]

Which type of cichlids?? There are many to choose from. I have an 80 gal Mbuna tank and I was trying a Lake Tang tank, but the tank mates really didn't want to be together and they each got separate tanks :? .
Here is a great link: http://www.mongabay.com/fish/species_index
Check out cichlids by area. Some of them are sooooooo aggressive; they're not worth keeping. As a group, Mbuna are active and territorial. There are peacock cichlids--different type of "pecking order" from the Mbuna. Then there are Lake Tang and New World/South American cichlids.
There is also the cichlid-forum.com. I am a member, but I spend all my time over here
Start researching and ask Qs as needed. You will have a great tank as long as:
1-you don't impulse buy your cichlids (done that, Horrific results )
2-you don't listen to LFS employees and you have your own research to back up your purchases (did that too )
3-whatever group you decide on, decorate the tank to their specifications.

HAVE FUN!!

 

[shawmutt]

55 gallon is perfect for mbuna with a sand/rock setup. I have a pic in my gallery of my 30 gallon setup, but I need to take an updated one, I have a few different types of algae growing in the tank now, and is the coolest tank I have ever seen (of course, I have a biased opinion ) I have 3 yellow labs and 3 kenyii in the 30 gallon.

 

[Allivymar]

What are your water parameters? Hard? Low pH? That will help dictate what type of cichlids would work best for you (unless you want to change the water parameters, but that can be a pain).

 

[ttimmer10]

thanks for the help. right now my water parameters are fairly normal, and was wondering what you meant by "changing water parameters can be a pain"?

The sand/rock set up looks really cool but what aerates the sand? and do the fish you have in there "get along"?

 

[shawmutt]

Mbunas are aggressive fish...a better way to put it is "tolerate each other." However, they don't do any damage to each other. They occasionally show signs of aggression (chasing, locking mouths, etc.).

Making my water parameters match those of a fish's natural habitat isn't really a pain for me--but I don't mind the weekly trips to fill up 2 5-gallon jugs of store bought ro water, adding all the necessary additives to the water, vigorously shaking the huge heavy jugs over my head (or lower depending on how strong I'm feeling ) to mix all the additives, waiting an hour or so and then shaking again, testing the water, leaving the jugs either in the sun or in the shade to get the temperature close to the tank temperature, and then hefting the jugs up and over the lip of my fish tank to refill the ten gallons I siphoned out (yes, I said weekly ).

It's easier to just test your tap water for GH and KH, and then try to match the species with your tap water. Generally speaking, harder high pH water is for African lake species, softer low pH water is for South American cichlids. There are exceptions, this is just a very broad generalization based on the most common cichlids available in a lfs.

To aerate the sand I stir it gently every two weeks.

 

[Menagerie]

My Mbuna are in a tank with Lace Rock, Texas Holey Rock and slabs of basalt. The base is a small gravel that the cichlids move all over the place. Fish: 4 Pseudotropheus zebras (1 blue, 1 white, 2 orange), 2 Pseudotropheus ?s, Red Top Zebra--Pseudotropheus Sandraracinos, Lemon Yellow (Electric Yellow)--Labidochromis caeruleus, White tail--Gephyrochromis Aceii, Rusty cichlid-- Iodotropheus sprengerae, Powder Blue cichlid--Pseudotropheus socolofi, one confused Blue Acara—Aequidens pulcher Striped River Catfish--Mystus vittatus, and one ugly Synodontis.
And we just added a male and female Pseudotropheus something. I need to take better notes at the LSF
It's a very active tank. The majority are juvies, but the mature ones (Acara, blue and white zebra and socolofi) are doing fine. Blue zebra is acting like a horny male teenager displaying for EVERYONE. The way the rock is arranged, everyone has a place to hide. After three years, I believe my fiancé and I have finally got a good mix of fish in there that can tolerate each other and stand up for themselves as they mature.

As for water parameters, the pH is at 7.7 and we have crushed coral that will be added to the filter when we get around to it I know things are well in the tank—socolofi has been gravid twice in the past three months. Last time she lost her brood (stress we believe caused by a Jack Dempsey that DID NOT belong in that tank), this time she is in QT and we’re hoping to see fry in three weeks. The first she successfully brooded young was last summer and we put her in QT (the father was white zebra, this time we don’t know).

 

[ttimmer10]

man you guys are great for help... my pH generally is around 7, and maybe a little higher (not sure of the accuracy of the kit I have ) and I have a lot of small gravel in the tank, it sounds like that may be good for one type of set up, but I need to make sure i match up my fish right with my tank... correct?
but i have to be sure to add some "caves" for them to hide in right?
thanks for the help, you guys are at least saving me the 20 dollar it may cost to buy a book and the frustration of realizing the book did not help at all

 

[Christmasfish]

What is your KH?

With such a neutral tap..you need to know its buffering ability too. It can affect how many water changes you have to do , how many odd spikes you can get. And using ph up and down can be affected harshly by that. I have an acidic 7 usually. buy I lost my buffers lately and it has affected my older stable tanks. I wasn't aware until the other day. I don't test kh very often.

So far you are shaping up to S. America as your conforming list.

 

[ttimmer10]

i have no idea of my KH... i don't even own a kit to test that... i'm going to kill myself for asking this next question... but... how critical is knowing the kh?

 

[Allivymar]

Pretty critical in the sense it will dictate how easy it is to change the pH levels. Check out this page here on pH, kH and gH and get a feel for how they interlink: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html

This info ties into the "changing water parameters can be a pain" thing. If you are looking to keep fish which require very hard or very soft water, knowing all that info is necessary.

 

[mikemou]

I have 3 yellow labs and 3 kenyii in the 30 gallon.

I have about zero knowledge on Cichlid..., but wondering is there a reason you don't have more than 6 fish in there? 30 gal. is pretty big to my standard...

Also, I admire your tank setup to no end!!! Those rocks, well, rock!!! May I ask where did you find/get them? My zero Cichlid knowledge tells me not all rocks are fish-safe, so you didn't pick those up from some rocky trials, did you?

 

[Menagerie]

The yellow labs will get 4-5" and the Kenyii 6-7”, which will max out the 30 gal. I have 13 Mbuna cichlids in an 80 gal. You need to overstock your tank and provide plenty of hiding places in order to keep aggression to a minimum. You also need to know the level of aggression each fish is known for. Some will be more aggressive than others. Research will pay off.
As for rocks--http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=21108

 

[shawmutt]

but wondering is there a reason you don't have more than 6 fish in there?

These fish are about 5" when fully grown. They are aggressive and very messy fish. Furthermore, all the rocks I have in there take up a considerable volume, there's probably only 20 gallons of water total. That being said, some people purposely overstock their cichlid tank to cut down on aggression, but after research and advice from people here I decided against it. It basically cuts down aggression by preventing the cichlids from claiming territory, but IMO if they don't have territory they won't exhibit their natural habits--to me that equals unhappy fishies (of course that's me assigning fish a human attribute )

May I ask where did you find/get them?

I got them from a plant nursery, a.k.a. a landscaping shop. Slate is chemically inert and after a good rinse in 10% bleach solution (9 parts water, 1 part bleach and then rinse until the smell of bleach is gone) generally safe. The only exception, though rare from a commercial purchase, is if there were impurities such as heavy metals in the rock. I also threw some limestone in there for the benefit of it's buffering ability, but if you decide on fish that desire lower pH water you want to avoid that. A "bucket o' rocks" (about 50#) cost me $25, where my lfs wanted $2.99 a lb! Generally speaking, fish supplies bought outside a lfs cost considerably less. The only drawback is that they almost always entail a bit more work, but for me that's part of the fun

HTH!

 

[Menagerie]

You need to overstock your tank and provide plenty of hiding places in order to keep aggression to a minimum.

I will restate, you can't have only a few in a tank, because then the aggressive ones simply terrorize the others. I believe in putting many fish in the tank after much research and find that the fish still display to each other and there are open areas for swimming and fighting . With many fish in the tank, the aggression is doled out among many, instead of one or two.

 

[shawmutt]

I don't think that 13 in an 80 is overstocking? I've read in my research as many as 15 mbuna in a 55 gal, and as many as 20 mbuna in a 90 gal is considered overstocking. However, in my 30 gallon, I am nervous about putting in any more than 6. Some problems with overstocking tanks is that they make the system less stable, more susceptible to problems, foul more quickly, and require more maintenance. IMHO, now that I've had a bit of experience, I don't think Africans should be kept in anything smaller than a 55 gal (which some people here tried to tell me before I started but I didn't listen ) . I rely on the hiding places to keep the cichlids out of trouble. Of course, all the rockwork comes with its own problems, as illustrated in my prior posts about the fish I thought was dead but was stuck somewhere in the rocks until he lost enough weight to free himself.

Maybe I need to start looking into a 55 :?

 

[mikemou]

two days into my new 55 gal tank, all four cichlids are alive, but water got murky.
there's no sand nor plants, just gravel and small stones(also two-day old and rinsed thoroughly), plus two coffee mugs used as their makeshift hiding places before i can get real rocks. filter working fine. no ammonia or nitrite readings.
i noticed they pooped a lot. could their waste and leftover flakes make water murky??? two of them are either red zebra or lemon cichild, the other two have milky white body with red eyes. but they're all under 1.5" long....

btw, do you know how fast do they grow to full fize?

 

[guppylove]

just go out and buy all the stuff you need to setup the tank water so then you will not mess it up you can get cichlid gravel that buff the water there is loads of stuff but they do move every thing around the floor so dont think it will stay how you want it. but wicked fish to watch as they get up to so much.

 

[Menagerie]

I don't think that 13 in an 80 is overstocking?

Oh, plus a common pleco, an ugly Synodontis and a green striped catfish. I don't think the tank is OVERstocked, but it is definitely stocked. Just a few weeks ago we were down to four cichlids and the tank was soooooo empty. The smallest fish is 2" and the largest zebra is 7". If everybody hits 7", and the pleco hits a foot, then we may have stocking issues

btw, do you know how fast do they grow to full fize?

Our white zebra probably took 3 years to get to full size.
The milky whites with red eyes sound like albino somebodies. Ew, ew--you won't see red eyed monsters in my tank
The water may be murky due to cycling and filtering issues. Cichlids produce waste just like other fish and I have never had a problem with murky water. What are your water parameters?

 

[shawmutt]

plus two coffee mugs used as their makeshift hiding places before i can get real rocks

hopefully you washed them out beforehand or the coffee residue will make them wired! (j/k)

noticed they pooped a lot. could their waste and leftover flakes make water murky

Absolutely. When I first got cichlids I had a tendency to overfeed, because they always look hungry! Just remember a few things: 1. Underfeeding is better than overfeeding, and unless their bellies start sinking in a bit, they are getting enough. 2. If poop is sticking to their butts (to put it scientifically ) they are getting too much food. 3. If their bellies start to swell, it's time to put them on a diet.

It will take a bit of experimenting to get the right amount of food for them, but once you do it will be better for them and for you. Just so you know, even with feeding the right amounts, cichlids are still messy and poop a lot, which make water changes very important.

What kind of filter are you using?