Help please!! my bolivian rams...

[bunebop]

are beating the crap out of one another. There's 1-2 in particular that are going after the other ones and one or two really being picked on. I read somewhere and was also told to get rams either in pairs or 5 or more, so I got 7. One was floating upsidedown a little while about and being chased and bitten beyond control... I know he prolly didn't like it but I moved him over to my 15 gallon and he seems to be doing ok in there. He's right side up, ate a little, not breathing *as* hard etc. The problem is there's still 2 or so that are really being picked on still. Is this usual for rams? Is there a reason for it? Is is breeding season?? lol do fish even have specific breeding seasons?? I'd really like not to lose a ram, cause they're my favorite fish, but I'm having major issues w/ them. I was considering moving the other one or two that I know are getting picked on to my 15 gallon tank... but I don't want to have the same problem in there, in addition to that the 15 gallon tank was only set up again two days later w/ biospira so I don't want the tank to go crazy if I keep adding fish. Should I take out another that's clearing being picked on and move him so the other has a buddy or just wait it out and hope for the best? TIA

 

[PK Tester]

How bad are these others being picked on?

Are you postive they are bolivian rams? Seems odd as everywhere I have read says they are pretty much peacefull...

What size of a tank do you have these in?

 

[FawnN]

How long have you had the rams? Did they all get added at once? Or are the one's being picked on the new additions?

My male, blue rams fight all the time too. They are just reminding eachother who's boss. They are more then likely just protecting eachother's territory.

If you have any females in the tank with the males, they could be fighting over the girls.

You could try rearranging the tank around a little. This usually helps when I have some over aggressive behavior.

 

[BASSNMAN]

Do you know if they are males or females that are fighting? I have 1 male and 4 females that get along well.

 

[chrism]

They are peaceful towards other fish, but tend to fight amongst themselves. I have three none of them get on. I believe i have two females and one male. Although they don't get on as such, they dont hurt each other, the odd lip locking battle and bumping into each other no casualties tho...

How big is the tank that they are in, IMO 7 rams would need a large tank. Not because they get big but because they have teritories, what you are seeing, i believe is them asserting dominance. Moving decorations might help, also adding as many plants/caves as you can.

Moving the weaker ones to the 15gal would help. I have three in a 20gal, so i wouldnt add more than that unless you feel you have to.

You can tell the males & females apart: Males have longer filaments to their fins, the front few dorsal fins will be dark black. the females have a pink ish belly, males poss more yellow... they are very hard to sex when young <2"

hope this helps...

 

[jibboo]

Do you have places to hide (ie plants in the tank)? Maybe if they aren't constantly in sight-line of each other will help also.

 

[Menagerie]

Wow! In a 50 gal tank there should be plenty of room for them. What kind of decor do you have? I would try moving the most aggressive fish and see how everyone else does in his absence. Do you know the sex ratio of the fish?

 

[bunebop]

I have no idea what the sex ratio of my fish are. I believe they are too young to tell for certain still, but I'm pretty sure it's at least one of each. They were all added at the same time. I took out the one really weak one last night and unfortunatly he was dead when I check on him this morning, so I am now down to 6. There's 2-3 of em that aren't looking too good still though (they've lost their color, barely moving etc) They (the 6 left) are all currently in my 50 gallon. It's planted w/ lots of places to hide so they don't have to be in eachothers faces or anything. I'm gonna keep watching and try and find the weak one's and move em over to my 15 gallon I think until they're older/stronger maybe. Not sure what else to do. They're really going after eachother though, definatly not friendly playing. They definatly look like Bolivian Rams (definatly not Blue Rams). I've also read that they are peacful etc which is why I am so confused.

 

[chrism]

that is really odd... I've seen mine go at each other but even after a 30 sec bout they havent done any damage... I don't know what else to suggest, sounds like you shouldnt have a problem...

perhaps this is just them setting up their territories? Are they are all fighting with each other? Its not like teams three on three?! i guess the 2-3 that aren't looking so goo arent causing too much hassel...

Yes, i would move the weaker ones out, let them recover and grow up a bit, praps put them in ur 10 Gal if you can set that up? the only problem i can see with that is when you add them back in, there might be more fighting, as they would be coming in on set up territories. I didnt buy all my rams at once, i bought two, and then bought another one, as my male seemed to be harrasing the female too much - she wouldnt come out the corner, and if she did... well he would make sure she went back in

i didnt any trouble, well nothing like ur having! the male just has to split his attention still likes them in the corners where he cant see them!

 

[FawnN]

Just out of curiosity, do you know what your pH is?

 

[bunebop]

My pH is pretty high, but I'm not sure what it is. I believe it's between 8-9 somewhere in there at least. I know it's high, but my fish seem to adjust and I think it's better to have a little higher pH than to continuously add chemicals and mess w/ the water. That's how it comes out of my tap. Like I said, there's 2-3 of them who seem to be really getting picked on. My mom will kill me if I set up the 10 gallon, so I might try and put them in the 15 gallon if the picking persists I suppose.

After I thought about it, I actually didn't get them all at one time. I origonally had 3, and the 2 ganged up on the third and killed it. Doin' more reading I read that if you're going to have them they should be in groups of 2 or 5 or more. They are my favorite fish in the tank, and I had noticed the bigger one still picking on the other one, so I got 5 more and added them prolly a week-week and a half later. I was hoping w/ more of them they wouldn't pick on certain fish as much, however like I said, there's 2 that I see that are being treated really badly. I think I'll try to separate them out later and put them in the 15 gallon. I'm just hoping that I don't remove them and then they single out another one.

 

[chrism]

that is high PH you drink that? totally agree on your theory about not adding chems

im still suprised they killed the odd one... im just wondering if they ganged up on it, where they buddy buddy with each other, ie could they have paired off? If they were exploring the tank together when the third one of the first lot died, it could be that they're gettin ready to breed? in which case they will get alot more aggressive than normal. it is possible that you got a pair plus a goosebury from the lfs. then of course, adding 5 more would start a tank war! are the two that ganged up still on the same side? lol

hope everything works out and they calm down. My mums the same, i had to fight for one tank, and then the second, now im trying to talk her into a third wish me luck!

 

[FawnN]

Wow that pH is extremely high. Rams like the pH to be around 6.6-7.6. Bolivians are very territorial and are known to fight amongst eachother, but never to the death.

This is what I think.

Your Rams are having a hard time adjusting to the pH level, getting weak from what you think is from the fighting, but in reality, they are stressing out by the pH.

Does that make sense? Could that possibly be the case?

 

[bunebop]

Yeah. I dunno. I lost another one though. There's still 1 more (I think) that is looking pretty bad. If I lose him I'm gonna hope the remaining 4 will be ok. I'm not sure which 2 I origionally had in the tank, so I do not know if they are ganging up against the newcommers, but I don't believe so. lol yes, we do drink the water, but luckily for us we don't haveta live in it. I don't *think* that they're having trouble w/ the pH, I adjust them very slowly into the new tank. I am aware that they prefer lower pH though, I've kept other fish who prefer lower pH's and have been told that basically they will just not breed under those circumstances but can live quite well. I might try adding some distilled water to get the pH down a bit, but like I said I don't like playing w/ chemicals. I'm just hoping the remaining 5 will be ok (although like I said I'm not holding out much hope for the one)

 

[Menagerie]

There are natural ways to bring pH down. Add bog wood, driftwood to the tank. Add peat to the filter. Fluval sells special peat for filters. Many of the dwarf cichlids are bred overseas in low pH, soft water and have a hard time adjusting to hard water with high pH.

 

[bunebop]

Yeah, my water's wierd. It's incredibly soft, but has a really high pH. Just looking at the tank a 3rd ram is going to die, I'm just waiting for it to stop breathing before I take him out But he's definatly not going to last too long. The remaining 4 seem ok, so hopefully they'll be ok after this one goes. :? I think these are going to be my last rams though for sure. I really love them, but I feel horrible when I keep killing fish and I seem to have better luck w/ some other fish. I'll look into the peat or driftwood or something for my filters. I'm hoping the remaining 4 are ok. I *think* they've paired off, however watching them they still chase eachother quite a lot and I've noticed they do kind of a kissing gourami thing where they grab eachothers lips and fight :? I'm just hoping they don't kill eachother. It looks really mean to me, but I'm hoping i'm just over paranoid. heh

 

[Menagerie]

I've noticed they do kind of a kissing gourami thing where they grab eachothers lips and fight

That's a typical cichlid fight. The mouth lock--I have seen it too often in my 80 gal Mbuna tank.

 

[bunebop]

Yeah, I was beginning to think it was normal, I knew it was w/ gouramis and bigger cichlids, but I didn't realize that it was like that w/ rams as well (I knew they were cichlids, but I read everywhere that they were peaceful) Hopefully they're just "play fighting" and not really hurting eachother though.

 

[severum mama]

bunebop, I had 4 Bolivian rams in my 29 gallon tank and they used to fight all the time. They were fighting to the point where they were really damaging each others' fins and I got really worried about them. I noticed that one was getting picked on more than the others so I moved it to my 20 gallon and left the other 3 to duke it out. Its tail was getting badly nipped so I didn't want to wait any longer to act, as they are some of my favorite fish also. Surprisingly, when I moved the smallest one the other 3 started to get along much better. They still fight but don't do any real damage. I think you should consider moving either the main aggressor, or the one you think is getting picked on the most and see what happens. If the weak one is too weak to move you should probably consider a tank divider.

 

[bunebop]

Yeah, the remaining four seem to be equally strong I guess. The 5th is still hanging on, but I can't imagine him still being alive tomorrow morning. I *think* the last four are going to be ok, or at least I hope so. :? While I was looking at my tank I also noticed one of my rubber lip plecos had died. I haven't seen my other in a while. I hope he's ok, if I don't see him soon I'll start moving around stuff to find him and make sure he doesn't rot in the tank and mess w/ the parameters. I have a little cave in there that I call the cave of death because my fish seem to mostly die in there Anyway, I'm going to have the water tested and everything... again... even though it was fine last time. Just going to have to wait it out and see what happens I guess. Thanks for all the advice!