I'm thinking about buying Rams

[thresholdoftime]

I'm just wondering if anyone could offer me some good advice to adhere by while adding rams to my 30 gallon tank. I tested my tank for nitrates and PH levels. PH is around 7.3 and Nitrates are at 0 right now.... Temp stays firmly at 80, maybe a bit above that at times.... Do these levels seem okay? Is there any special kind of lighting I should offer them? Special plants?

Also I have a Chinese algae eater that is about 2 1/2 ". Should I take him out? I'm going to a fish dealer that accepts trade ins. If the rams decide to spawn I'd like to see the fry hatch and I would be kinda mad if that little guy ate the eggs. He's a cute fish but I know those kinds are notorious for eating eggs.

Also in my tank are a group of 5 zebra danios and a group of 5 neon tetras

I'm even considering trading all my fish in and just getting a community of African Cichlids. Idono I can't make up my mind ahhh! lol

 

[JustOneMore20]

I would trade in the CAE.....and Rams would be good for your tank. Your parameters look fine. They don't need special lighting or plants....Plants are good for any fish. They aren't picky....just get plants suitable for your lighting.

There wouldn't be many Africans you could put in a 30g (well Malawians anyways).....so keep what you have! You could add more Danios and Neons.....they look better in larger groups.

 

[mgamer20o0]

how about some shell dwellers?

cae are also known to be aggressive so i think its a good idea to return it.

 

[thresholdoftime]

how about some shell dwellers?

cae are also known to be aggressive so i think its a good idea to return it.

Yeah I was possibly going to trade them all in and see if I can get a pair that would spawn....

 

[DragonFish71]

The danios and tetras will also eat the fry so you need to be aware of that. The danios do make good dither fish if you plan to let the Rams breed. I have 2 tanks with Rams in them now and plan to start a 40 gal breeder of just Rams. My Golds are in a 29 community with 3 types of tetras and some live barers. Their "wigglers" don't survive because the tetras are so fast they can eat them. (Which is the reason for the Ram 40 I'm working on) My Blues are in a 14 Hex with just cory cats. The females are too young yet to care for the eggs so none survive the first night. (Yea I know the corys eat the eggs too.)

Now that being said NO Africans with them! Rams are very peaceful for being cichlids. If you want other cichlids with them try Kribs. You will get some turf wars and raising fry might be an issue, but they are compatible. If you want to breed the Rams, keep them in a "Ram" tank. All catfish (otos, corys, plecos, algae eaters) will eat the eggs, wigglers or fry. There is no getting around it, it's what they do. The parents will keep as good a care of the kidlets that they can. Unless you move the eggs to a tank by themselves you will lose some.

In both tanks I keep live plants for them and I use mopani wood in one, it gives them the tannins they love. You can also use Black Water Extract by Tetra brand. They thrive for the tannins. Every time I do water changes and add some of the Extract I get eggs. (Live brine shrimp also help. The Extract and shrimp are like candle light and chocolate for them. lol) Their water (both tanks) is kept at 82 degrees constantly. I don't test Ph, we have low Ph water here and I don't like the idea of Ph chemicals.

All in all, it really depends on you and your tastes. From what my experience is with Rams, I decided a tank just for them is better since I do want to have some spawns that survive. I've done all kinds of research and planned out what I need to do to make this work, and I've observed the Rams I already have. I'm not an expert and my advice is based on what I've already gone thru and have found out. I've even asked advice on here when my Golds had their first spawn and got good advice.

Hope this helps you in some way.

 

[SparKy697]

I would also ask if you know your fish dealer. Many people have less than great luck with store bought rams. I have had better luck with rams purchased on line. If planning on breeding you may have to start out with more than two. It's not easy at a young age to sex them and pairing up is mostly chance. I agree that once pair bonds develop you will want to separate them from the others. if not, somebody may get hurt or dead.

I always liked a sand bottom, but others like a bare bottom for breading... your choice. Driftwood and maybe a small bit of moss is nice too, but nothing that needs a lot of light and ferts. Flat rocks, clay pots, and sometimes broad leaves make nice spawning places. Be prepared to remove mom after spawning, dad takes over and get's grumpy about her trying to help and she can get pretty beat up. Some will even remove dad, not a fan....

It's an amazing process and they are beautiful fish. Don't get discouraged when the first couple times don't work out.. It's very normal. Start practicing on your brine shrimp hatching skills...

Have fun and good luck!

 

[thresholdoftime]

I would also ask if you know your fish dealer. Many people have less than great luck with store bought rams. I have had better luck with rams purchased on line. If planning on breeding you may have to start out with more than two. It's not easy at a young age to sex them and pairing up is mostly chance. I agree that once pair bonds develop you will want to separate them from the others. if not, somebody may get hurt or dead.

I always liked a sand bottom, but others like a bare bottom for breading... your choice. Driftwood and maybe a small bit of moss is nice too, but nothing that needs a lot of light and ferts. Flat rocks, clay pots, and sometimes broad leaves make nice spawning places. Be prepared to remove mom after spawning, dad takes over and get's grumpy about her trying to help and she can get pretty beat up. Some will even remove dad, not a fan....

It's an amazing process and they are beautiful fish. Don't get discouraged when the first couple times don't work out.. It's very normal. Start practicing on your brine shrimp hatching skills...

Have fun and good luck!

Yeah I read somewhere that it's best to remove the rock where the eggs are on to a different tank where they can hatch alone

 

[thresholdoftime]

Okay here is my problem. I love rams and I think they are a beautiful fish. I'm very tempted to try them out, but I've never seen any in person; just pictures online and in books. Then there is the fact that I love my tank to be crystal clean. I clean it good every two weeks, have white sand, beautiful shells and rocks, and it's almost now to a point where someone could be fooled into believing that it is a reef tank. I FEAR TANNIS LOL! although I'm going to my dads today to boil two huge pieces of awesome drift wood. If I can boil them to a point where I can get all the tannis out then maybe I can deal with it. I really like African Cichlids a lot and I wanna get a pair that would spawn alone in my tank..... So is it detrimental that I NOT put the driftwood in a tank that I plan on putting african cichlids in?

hmmm maybe the fish dealer would trade the drift wood for fish, and then I can get some really expensive kind of african cichlids hehe..

 

[SparKy697]

Driftwood in your African Cichlid tank can be optional.

 

[DragonFish71]

I would also ask if you know your fish dealer. Many people have less than great luck with store bought rams. I have had better luck with rams purchased on line. If planning on breeding you may have to start out with more than two. It's not easy at a young age to sex them and pairing up is mostly chance. I agree that once pair bonds develop you will want to separate them from the others. if not, somebody may get hurt or dead.

I always liked a sand bottom, but others like a bare bottom for breading... your choice. Driftwood and maybe a small bit of moss is nice too, but nothing that needs a lot of light and ferts. Flat rocks, clay pots, and sometimes broad leaves make nice spawning places. Be prepared to remove mom after spawning, dad takes over and get's grumpy about her trying to help and she can get pretty beat up. Some will even remove dad, not a fan....

It's an amazing process and they are beautiful fish. Don't get discouraged when the first couple times don't work out.. It's very normal. Start practicing on your brine shrimp hatching skills...

Have fun and good luck!

I've never tried buying them online. Believe it or not I get my Blues at Petco (when they can get them in) and my Golds at a real LFS.
However even my LFS can't figure out how one minute they can be eating and swimming happily then the next dead. (Yep that happened to my male Gold) He ate his brine shrimp, swam around with his girl, then one twitch and was dead. I had my water checked and it was perfect. No clue what happened.

But from either place they are both very young and the females are just now maturing and understanding how to care for the eggs. The first 2 spawns of my Blues resulted in eggs being eaten while I was at work. This time (knock on wood) there are still eggs. They spawned again Friday night. I did a water change and became a grandma. lol.

I use regular black gravel in the tank they are in right now and they have dug out a spot. They ignore the slate and other flat rocks. But my Golds have spawned on the head of my UGF in the 29. Go figure.

When we get the 40 going I will be using Eco-Complete. I wanted sand at first but have heard bad things about trying to clean it.

I think they are just very easy to make a tank around. They seem to be happy with just about anything. And you are correct, they are beautiful fish. We enjoy watching them.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Okay here is my problem. I love rams and I think they are a beautiful fish. I'm very tempted to try them out, but I've never seen any in person; just pictures online and in books. Then there is the fact that I love my tank to be crystal clean. I clean it good every two weeks, have white sand, beautiful shells and rocks, and it's almost now to a point where someone could be fooled into believing that it is a reef tank. I FEAR TANNIS LOL! although I'm going to my dads today to boil two huge pieces of awesome drift wood. If I can boil them to a point where I can get all the tannis out then maybe I can deal with it. I really like African Cichlids a lot and I wanna get a pair that would spawn alone in my tank..... So is it detrimental that I NOT put the driftwood in a tank that I plan on putting african cichlids in?

hmmm maybe the fish dealer would trade the drift wood for fish, and then I can get some really expensive kind of african cichlids hehe..

Which Africans are you talking about? Malawian Mbuna (the kind usually found in the mixed African tank at the lfs) don't form pairs. They are polygamous, so you'd want several females per male. You could do a male and 3-4 females of a smaller Mbuna and have it work in a 30g. You would need some rock work though....they are rock dwellers. Driftwood is optional, definitely, though if its the kind that lowers pH, I wouldn't use it. Africans like a high pH and hard water.

Another option mentioned above are shell dwellers. Some form pairs and others form colonies. Multifasciatus are easy shell dwellers. They don't eat their fry, so you could breed them easily. They need shells....and you'd want a species tank so that nothing else would eat the fry. There are other Tanganyikan fish that would work in your tank too.

Rams are awesome too and easy to breed....but like said above other fish will eat the eggs/wrigglers. You'd want to move the eggs if you could...to have them survive. Rams are beautiful fish!

 

[thresholdoftime]

here is a pic of my tank right now... Yeah I was considering lake Tanganikan Cichlids.... I just have a hard time making my mind up what ones to get. I bought a book on Cichlids and have been reading as much as I can about them. I know about keeping 1 male of a species to about 3-4 females... But one thing I'm unsure of; If lets say I get 1 Multifasciatus male, and 3 females, and then 1 other species of tanganikan with 1 male, and 3 females would they still mate? OR is it detrimental that I keep only one species in the tank for them to mate?

 

[JustOneMore20]

Depends on what species the other is....and whether you want the fry to survive. Multi fry are very tiny and while the parents try to keep them safe, they can't guard them all. Many fish like to eat Multi fry....so if you want to get a colony going of Multis, then I would suggest a species tank for them. Or you could try to move the shells that the fry are in and raise them in another tank....if you had more fish.

Other fish will breed and might eat/kill their own fry eventually...so you'd probably have to move them to another tank.

Are you wanting to raise some fry? If you had tanks for raising fry, you could keep various species in your tank and just take the fry out to raise them.

Some Tang Cichlids form pairs. Julidochromis form pairs I believe and are good fish for a 30g. Shell Dwellers like Brevis form pairs too.


Your tank looks like a good Tanganyikan tank!

 

[thresholdoftime]

Thanks, I've been putting a lot of effort into it. I'm wondering what you mean by them forming pairs?

I do have a small 5 gallon I could salvage the fry in if they were to mate. I guess I could offer a fish dealer the fry for a trade in when they get to big to keep in that small tank.

Julidochromis is an awesome fish and I would love to get some... so they live good with Multi and brevis?

 

[DragonFish71]

I'm seeing only one problem if you go with Africans, your neons would be fish bait

 

[thresholdoftime]

I'm seeing only one problem if you go with Africans, your neons would be fish bait

Oh I would trade in everyone single one of the fish I have in there right now if I were to get Africans. And I think I made up my mind on the TANG Africans.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Thanks, I've been putting a lot of effort into it. I'm wondering what you mean by them forming pairs?

They pair off.... like male/female pairs to breed. Some African Cichlid males breed with several females and others like to just have one female. Brevis pair off.....instead of having several females....so you just have to stock accordingly. When you get young ones, you can get a group and then wait for a couple pairs to form, and keep them. Same with the Julidochromis.

Julidochromis is an awesome fish and I would love to get some... so they live good with Multi and brevis?

Yes, Julies live well with Multis and Brevis. Other than eating fry (like most fish), they live well with the shell dwellers. They are rock dwellers, so your tank looks great for them.

I would choose 1 type of Shell Dweller, the Julies, and you may be able to have another type of Tang Cichlid as well. I'd get some feedback from other folks...maybe make a thread about stocking in this section (since this thread isn't about Rams much anymore).