Introducing fish

[squirrilah fish]

River,

Most people (myself included) can't look at a fish for weeks before purchase because a good looking fish will be gone before the two weeks is out. It is also difficult to avoid box stores in many states especially Texas where the roads are straight and the box stores rule supreme because they already put the little guys out of business which means you will eventually buy from a box store.

When the time comes to stock my tank I will make the 100 mile ride to Houston where there are some very large pet stores, many specializing in fish. But once again, 100 miles one way is a serious drive, and when I see a specimen I like there will not be time for procrastination, once again, big city, good stock moves fast.

My point is that the options you mention are not feasible for everybody. I just picked up a 10 with hood at WallyWorld for $30 and I've started to look for a decent little filter (already have extra heater)

Don't want to quarantine but................

However, I will not empty it and re-cycle it after every use, perhaps there are some additives which are good for a quarantine tank that will help with this issue

Petco will do their $1 per gallon sale often too. 10g tank $10, heater $15, sponge filter $5 air pump and tubing $10.

$40.00- treating a 55 gallon tank for parasites - I've spent easily over $40.

But like I said illness isn't the only benefit to having an extra tank. Fishes behavior isn't something you can predict. I've had Mbuna that were calm as could be, and I've had aulonocara that were mean as snot.

I think the point we are all trying to make is in the long run, if you consider cost of medications, cost of replacing fish, etc. a QT tank is worth it.
You could get perfect stock every time, no behavioral issues, no disease. It is possible, but highly unlikely.

 

[MeCasa]

When you purchase fish online it's cost effective to buy multiple fish. Would you suggest putting dividers in the Q tank to house multiple fish yet keep them apart in such a small area?

They wouldn't have a lot of moving room but there's a lot of contradictions involved in this process. You need to stock a large tank quickly to allow the fish to establish a pecking order while they are equal sized. At the same time the introduction bible says one fish at a time and clean Q tank between introductions meaning you will need to re-cycle.

Sometimes 'the best way' doesn't include real life situations nor common sense

I'm leaning towards dividers and only fish from the same source in tank. Two week quarantine and no clean-out before the next batch but perhaps a douse of general between introductions

 

[squirrilah fish]

Juveniles are generally not as aggressive as their adult selves so you could put fish of the same size in the QT tank.

 

[squirrilah fish]

I totally agree with your statement about the best way. Planning around what will work best for you and the fish can be difficult.

 

[squirrilah fish]

One thought I had just now. The point of a QT is to not infect your current fish. If you have no fish, and order all your fish at once. You could skip the QT, it's still good to have for other reasons or late additions.

In the meantime using goldfish to match the bioload of the expected number of fish will help the cycling process when you add them, you could still get disease and have to treat the whole tank. But like you said ordering is expensive, and it makes more sense financially to get them all at once.
Not advised, going from an empty tank to a full tank is pretty sketchy. But I can see he logic in it.
If that's what your doing throw down some goldfish to get the bio ready.

 

[squirrilah fish]

Doing it that way will require more work/attention from you, and put more stress on the fish. As adding a new fish not only stresses that fish out, but can the others as well. A whole tank if stressed out fish, I think it's safe to assume some if not many won't make it.

That's the balance: what's best for you and your wallet vs what's better for the fish. The goal is to make these the same answer.

 

[Rivers2k]

Petco will do their $1 per gallon sale often too. 10g tank $10, heater $15, sponge filter $5 air pump and tubing $10.

$40.00- treating a 55 gallon tank for parasites - I've spent easily over $40.

But like I said illness isn't the only benefit to having an extra tank. Fishes behavior isn't something you can predict. I've had Mbuna that were calm as could be, and I've had aulonocara that were mean as snot.

I think the point we are all trying to make is in the long run, if you consider cost of medications, cost of replacing fish, etc. a QT tank is worth it.
You could get perfect stock every time, no behavioral issues, no disease. It is possible, but highly unlikely.

Problem is unless we are talking dwarf cichlids most cichlids will be to stressed in a 10 gallon. None of the fish I buy will fit in a 10 gallon.

 

[Rivers2k]

You can indeed catch it 90% of the time and when you see it, you don't buy the fish. It's that other 10% that is too high a risk in my opinion. And treating 10 gallons of water is far less expensive than treating 120. There's simply no point in risking the health of every other fish for the sake of one that you're "sure" is healthy.

Again your fish that are in a 120 will likely be way to stressed in a 10 gallon ad more susceptible to infections that are present. I would rather treat the 120 and have a better chance of the fish surviving. If your fish are healthy and well taken care of in the main tank they will be resilient to parasites and infections just like they are in the wild.

Like I said be fore never lost a fish except those bought at big box stores.

For those of you that only have the option of big box stores or don't have time to observe the fish than I would indeed quarantine. but please don't do it in a little 10 gallon where the fish don't have room to move.

 

[MeCasa]

I appreciate the advice. I'm slowing down the building process to add a built-in water replacement system which will unfortunately start with drilling my oak floor but such is life.

This system will consist of a self priming siphon down 8" into the tank which will regulate the amount of water I want replaced. I will add the capability of adding a slip on cleaning tube for cleaning maintenance. This will drain outside but will have a shutoff to stop any creepy critters from using it as I highway.

The feed pipe will have both a shutoff and a float valve to stop accidental overfills which would do serious damage.

The reason I'm doing this now is that it will allow me to regulate the cycling by adding small amounts of ammonia and/or replacing water as necessary until I'm ready to introduce fish. This way I'll be able to use the siphon to move water from the main tank into the intro tank (next to it for now) and further control the little tank cycles by introducing seed material and/or water from the large tank as needed.This will also make sure that the water in the intro tank is consistent with the water in the main tank easing the stress of movement.

Once the systems are in place I'll start buying fish and this will also give me more time to decide what sources would be best for me.

I am just as concerned introducing sickness into the large tank itself as I am to other fish.

 

[Tank Girl]

To be clear - I'm not locked in to 10 gallon quarantine tanks. If a fish can be comfortably housed in a tank that size, that's what I would use. If that's too small, I choose something larger. I tailor it to the fishes needs. There is still no point in risking all for the sake of one. There is no way to guarantee the health of a fish by observation alone, even if you stare at it all day.

 

[MeCasa]

River,

The problem and the point is that you are ignoring the purpose of the thread and giving advice that is specific to YOUR needs ignoring the needs of the original poster who asked for help. I'm not typing this because I care about my needs as I can fend for myself. But as I stated earlier, most people can NOT look at fish for weeks and most people are not buying fish too large for a 10 gallon intro.

I respect your advice but it would be better if you stipulated that your advice does not fit the original or average poster's needs which dilutes it's value to proving a point.

 

[MeCasa]

That said, I hope you feel free to carry on your debate with Tank Girl as I find the conversation informative.

In younger days before the internet was a way of life I had great success without an introduction tank and I often wonder if we are now in an age with too much information.

Ignorance may not always be blissful but it can sure take away all the worries associated with too much information. Everybody is so worried about stressing the fish that they forgot about stressing me!!!

I thought firing up the old tank would be relaxing

 

[MonkeyMonk86]

LoL. I thought restarting being an aquarist after a 30yr hiatus would be relaxing, too. ROFLOL. ???

 

[Caliban07]

How long has QT ing been going? I'm just curious. When was it decided that it was necessary?

 

[Caliban07]

That said, I hope you feel free to carry on your debate with Tank Girl as I find the conversation informative.

In younger days before the internet was a way of life I had great success without an introduction tank and I often wonder if we are now in an age with too much information.

Ignorance may not always be blissful but it can sure take away all the worries associated with too much information. Everybody is so worried about stressing the fish that they forgot about stressing me!!!

I thought firing up the old tank would be relaxing

Sometimes I too wonder if we have too much information. I often listen to the people on here who have had the most experience and have been in the trading business as I believe these people can give me a truer reflection of how things are.

I'm with rivers on this one. I do sympathise with people who don't have it as lucky as I do in terms of access to shops, stable source water etc but I can't help but think:

How often is that that fish actually get sick BECAUSE they are in QT? Then 3 weeks down the road the fish gets ill and they go 'oh look at that! I'm so glad I QT'd' How often is it that fish are introduced in to tanks with unclean water, inappropriate tank mates, poor acclimatisation, poor handing from shop to home, inadequate tank sizes and the fish become ill because they are stressed and susceptible to disease?

I believe, and I guess it is only a theory that if you have a healthy tank then the fish in there will not become Ill. If you have a healthy tank of guppies say and introduce a betta the guppies are now vulnerable and stressed and so become Ill then you think the betta has brought in a disease.

For me personally, I can't wait to get the fish in to a stable, clean environment such as my display tank as it stands more chance if fighting anything it may already have.

In no way am I insinuating that people in this discussion treat the fish poorly or have unclean tanks. It's just my theory. All the fish I have lost have been through faults of my own.

 

[squirrilah fish]

Like I said you can be fine 99% of the time. It's that. 1%.
And QTing doesn't have to take weeks. Usually if a fish is sick you can tell within days. Because the stress of the move with exacerbate any illness he might have. If a fish isn't sick move him over.

 

[jahonnimyfav101]

You can indeed catch it 90% of the time and when you see it, you don't buy the fish. It's that other 10% that is too high a risk in my opinion. And treating 10 gallons of water is far less expensive than treating 120. There's simply no point in risking the health of every other fish for the sake of one that you're "sure" is healthy.

exactly

 

[Tbox]

I'd get a 2nd tank. This is AA, you have my support to do so.