Mixed Cichlid 150

[MeCasa]

I'm thinking of adding a Brichardi and or a [FONT=&quot]Aulonocara Firefish [/FONT]to the mix if I can find some nice ones. That will be it as I don't like to crowd my fish.

Dempsey, still small but soon to rule



Convict, current troublemaker



Green terror, good looking fish


Electric Yellow, another looker



Jewel, likewise



Firemouth, still too small for color but I have high hopes



Red Zebra, vibrant color



Cobalt Zebra, likewise



Pink Convict, very small but feisty already



Siamese Algae, hard worker and fun to watch



Bristlenose, once again a very hard worker



My Grandkids and myself are happy with the lineup


Everlast - What It's Like

 

[Seryiouz]

With all due respect, this is a disaster waiting to happen.


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[swifty]

With all due respect, this is a disaster waiting to happen.


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How so? People are keeping africans with CA/SA more and more common these days. The tank may be a bit on the small side (I'd think a 180 or 210 would be better) but it's doable. Provided there are enough breaks in line of sight and caves and areas for a bullied fish to escape and come back, there shouldn't be any major issues.

Although, I think the GT will be the tank boss, not the dempsey. Dempseys IME tend to be shy and solitary as they get older.

Also, don't add any more fish. Just watch for any aggression and be prepared to rehome any fish to a friend or a LFS if need be. Good luck!

 

[MeCasa]

With all due respect, this is a disaster waiting to happen.


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I've been raising cichlids for 40+ years, there wasn't a mbuana or a Malawi, they were all generic African Mouthbreeders

If I added another fish in an existing species there would be more chance of a fight between the two of the same species as there would be between two different species.

That said, there is no guarantees with cichlids, they may coexist or they may not. In my experience, fish raised together as juvies seem to have the best chance of getting along later.

Time will tell

 

[MeCasa]

How so? People are keeping africans with CA/SA more and more common these days. The tank may be a bit on the small side (I'd think a 180 or 210 would be better) but it's doable. Provided there are enough breaks in line of sight and caves and areas for a bullied fish to escape and come back, there shouldn't be any major issues.

Although, I think the GT will be the tank boss, not the dempsey. Dempseys IME tend to be shy and solitary as they get older.

Also, don't add any more fish. Just watch for any aggression and be prepared to rehome any fish to a friend or a LFS if need be. Good luck!

I think the tank is plenty big especially as there is a good chance that all will not make it to full size. Which is why I want to add one more, it will be near impossible to add anything after 6 months.



Lots of hiding places, the tank was designed and co-built by my 12 year old granddaughter and I'm proud of her efforts.

Disneyland for cichlids

 

[mikem691]

I think the tank is plenty big especially as there is a good chance that all will not make it to full size. Which is why I want to add one more, it will be near impossible to add anything after 6 months.



Lots of hiding places, the tank was designed and co-built by my 12 year old granddaughter and I'm proud of her efforts.

Disneyland for cichlids

The text in red makes this the perfect tank.

 

[Seryiouz]

Well MeCasa looks like you've been doing this a long time, so more power to ya. I personally couldnt pull this off given the different diets, water levels, and temperaments of your selected group. Good thing your grandchild loves it & you're experienced enough to pull this off


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[MeCasa]

Well MeCasa looks like you've been doing this a long time, so more power to ya. I personally couldnt pull this off given the different diets, water levels, and temperaments of your selected group. Good thing your grandchild loves it & you're experienced enough to pull this off

Seryiouz;, you're right yet wrong and I think the misconception comes from the world wide web. We simply have too much information that is accurate yet misleading.

Professional breeding operations use the same water for most if not all their species and large fish stores use the same water for all their tanks. Add to this that most breeders and lfs's use the same generic food on all breeds and the differences narrow greatly.

What these fish's ancestors did in the wild has little to do with the fish we buy and raise.

The text in red makes this the perfect tank.

Pretty much how I feel

 

[swifty]

Seryiouz;, you're right yet wrong and I think the misconception comes from the world wide web. We simply have too much information that is accurate yet misleading.

Professional breeding operations use the same water for most if not all their species and large fish stores use the same water for all their tanks. Add to this that most breeders and lfs's use the same generic food on all breeds and the differences narrow greatly.

What these fish's ancestors did in the wild has little to do with the fish we buy and raise.

Agreed. I fear a lot of people read 2-3 articles online and paint them out as the "truth".

Mention NLS vs Hikari and watch the fireworks fly. Lots of debates over the exact % of water to change out, how often to do it, and if it should even be done in certain setups. Far too many variables, and also what make the hobby so great. What works for one person may or may not work for another. You really have to experiment on your own and make your own conclusions.

You are definitely right with the ancestor comment. A large majority of the fish (freshwater at least, salt's a completely different story) at LFS/pet chains are from breeders. I'd wager to say almost all of them are. The only wild caught fish for sale I've seen are from specialty vendors online.

I've seen a few videos online of some of the CA/SA cichlids in the wild, and they are considerably smaller than domestically raised fish. We give them a far better environment than in the wild (safety from predators, healthy diet) which allows them to grow to their full potential.

 

[Freakgecko91]

I've purchased many wild caught fish from local fish stores before I had to tear most of my tanks down, but even in my remaining tank, I have a wild caught pair of spathodus erythrodon 'Burundi' that I got at my LFS back in Michigan just before I moved. Seen plenty of wild caught at my new lfs here as well.

Personally, I hate having to deal with even a single nipped fin and slight aggression in my tangs, let alone having to do it on a regular basis. It's stressful to me, as well as the fish, so I stock my tank properly and avoid species that would otherwise share the same niche in the tank. I despise mixed tanks for one main reason: they look goofy. I am yet to see a mixed continent tank, where a central or South American doesn't look out of place among a bunch of mbuna.

Also diet still does come into play. I personally only feed NLS and will be picking up spirulina as well, as I like to avoid giving my gobies bloat, which is very easy with them when given too much protein. Whenever I would try and target feed my tanganyikan bullhead cats some shrimp pellets, my female goby always managed to snag one, and would bloat out. Many central and South Americans require much higher protein to grow at a healthy rate, a percentage of protein that can often kill mbuna. Also, a lot of people like to give their south/central cichlids treats and varying diets, such as earthworms, bloodworms, beef heart (which I don't recommend anyway), etc. which are all much too high of protein content for the digestive tract for mbuna, leading to Malawi bloat and a dead fish.


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[MeCasa]

I've purchased many wild caught fish from local fish stores before I had to tear most of my tanks down, but even in my remaining tank, I have a wild caught pair of spathodus erythrodon 'Burundi' that I got at my LFS back in Michigan just before I moved. Seen plenty of wild caught at my new lfs here as well.

90% of wild caught fish are not wild caught fish and I for one would not own a wild caught fish. I believe they're happy where there at and I'd rather leave them in peace.

Personally, I hate having to deal with even a single nipped fin and slight aggression in my tangs, let alone having to do it on a regular basis. It's stressful to me, as well as the fish, so I stock my tank properly and avoid species that would otherwise share the same niche in the tank.

Cichlids not only fight to the death in the wild but they eat the loser. So, you take an aggressive fish that will kill each other in the wild, stick them in close proximity in a small glass container because you hate nicked fins and you don't want to stress this animal?

I despise mixed tanks for one main reason: they look goofy. I am yet to see a mixed continent tank, where a central or South American doesn't look out of place among a bunch of mbuna.

Your opinion

Also diet still does come into play. I personally only feed NLS and will be picking up spirulina as well, as I like to avoid giving my gobies bloat, which is very easy with them when given too much protein. Whenever I would try and target feed my tanganyikan bullhead cats some shrimp pellets, my female goby always managed to snag one, and would bloat out. Many central and South Americans require much higher protein to grow at a healthy rate, a percentage of protein that can often kill mbuna. Also, a lot of people like to give their south/central cichlids treats and varying diets, such as earthworms, bloodworms, beef heart (which I don't recommend anyway), etc. which are all much too high of protein content for the digestive tract for mbuna, leading to Malawi bloat and a dead fish.

As I stated earlier, these fish are raised on generic flakes, whether it be NLS or Kelloggs and feeding my fish flakes does not preclude giving treats. Like anything else, moderation and care.

You're too opinionated which is OK, acting like yours is the only proper way and using words like despise and goofy is just immature.

 

[Brookster123]

Getting fiesty up in here..

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[MeCasa]

Getting fiesty up in here..

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Agreed

My point is that we are not great environmentalists building natural habitat cages so that future generations can enjoy these species.

We are caging animals for our own enjoyment and each one of us has vision on what makes us and our wards happy.

Enjoy your vision and respect the visions of others

 

[Seryiouz]

I agree w/Freckogecko on the diet thing. I just lost an African (Haplochromis Ruby Green) to bloat. Bloat is a very sensitive thing w/African cichlids and I'm very cautious. I also have a different tank of convicts that definitely need more meat protein so I feed them two different foods. That's why I told MeCasa more power to her if she can pull this off. I also prefer species only tank, though I'm not against doing a mixed tank someday...not to this level though.


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[MeCasa]

What do you think caused the bloat? I'm never against making efforts to avoid problems.

I found this and so far haven't read anything to show bloat is endemic to keeping CA cichlids with Africans as long as certain treats are avoided or severely moderated and pellets are softened.

Malawi Bloat | dreaded Cichlid disease

I feed twice a day, their appetites are properly healthy (they sound like piranha when feeding). I feed NLS flake in the morning 8AM; spirulina and softened pellets at night 6PM and a small amount of fruit at night 9PM +/- as a treat

I have 1200gph filtration with UV and my tank is super clear. I don't do water changes except periodically when cleaning (don't believe in them) but I add 4 gallons +/- of water weekly to balance an open top. PH stays at a steady 8.2

I also have a large section of live plants and it doesn't bother me if they eat on them although I hate when they tear them out for fun

 

[Freakgecko91]

90% of wild caught fish are not wild caught fish and I for one would not own a wild caught fish. I believe they're happy where there at and I'd rather leave them in peace.


Cichlids not only fight to the death in the wild but they eat the loser. So, you take an aggressive fish that will kill each other in the wild, stick them in close proximity in a small glass container because you hate nicked fins and you don't want to stress this animal?



Your opinion


As I stated earlier, these fish are raised on generic flakes, whether it be NLS or Kelloggs and feeding my fish flakes does not preclude giving treats. Like anything else, moderation and care.

You're too opinionated which is OK, acting like yours is the only proper way and using words like despise and goofy is just immature.

When I know the owner, and am friends with my LFS, know their importers, and see the order sheets, yeah, I know when my fish is wild caught. And not to mention, how do you think the species that have become so popular today were able to get to that point? Yeah, wild caught fish.

All cichlids do NOT fight to the death, nor eat the loser, and to act like they do is asinine. I can name off dozens of peaceful cichlid species. There are probably hundreds even. Not all cichlid (and most aren't) predators. And the reason I hate nipped fins, is because it generally means a fish is being stressed. Getting chased and bit, yeah, that doesn't sound fun to me.

And No **** Sherlock it's my opinion, hence why I said "I PERSONALLY". Of course that signifies it's my opinion!

And quite frankly, I never acted like my way was better. I said what I prefer, and the reasons why, just as you stated in yours. Don't start a thread if you're not up to criticism. And I will use words like despise and goofy because I truly do hate mixed tanks. They often end in dead or severely stressed fish, and once again, try and keep with it IN MY OPINION look tacky and, yes, goofy.

I tend to avoid threads like these because the OP is always super set in their ways, and will find an excuse to dismiss every valid reason for not doing so. It's stuff like this that really make me not enjoy this forum. I'm not gonna say "nice and, love your choices" to a tank I don't agree with at all. I presented my opinion in a civilized manner, you don't like it, move on. Don't mistake passion for "over opinionated" when you yourself are so stubborn that you're ignoring what everyone else has to say about it. Stuff like this has driven so many awesome members away.


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[MeCasa]

I posted this thread so my granddaughter could see pictures of her fish online and you're correct that I don't care about your opinions

 

[Freakgecko91]

If you're going to try and call me "overly opinionated" when you are putting down any counter-argument with an invalid excuse, such as "90% aren't wild", then I will get defensive. I was simply trying to show the other side of the story from what you were telling. Yeah, there are some fish stores that fake the label, but there are MANY that don't. And yes, diet will matter, even if you feed NLS, because odds are, you are going to offer the fish a secondary food, and that is often going to make a difference. you can't feed high protein to mbuna and many tang species like you can to most south and central american species.

People just entering the hobby look at things like this and expect that a mixed tank will work everytime. Happens with youtube videos all the time. "Well I saw x fish with y fish, so they must work together" when in reality, x and y fish hardly ever actually work. And I don't believe in the whole "It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does, so you just have to test it" argument. Why not just go a route you KNOW will work and avoid the headache and stress on living creatures? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results". I don't care if I seem rude to you, I see it as passionate. I like to avoid having people try to replicate things like this and post on here "well this person's tank seemed ok, why isn't mine?"...it gets real old after a while.

And quite frankly, I can appreciate you did this for your granddaughter, and that's great. But I would think you would want to try and maintain a more peaceful tank rather than species that will end up nipping eachothers fins and stressing each other out. A dead fish to a young one is never a fun time, in my experiences.

 

[Gillie]

I buy my fish exclusively from the same store Freak does, the owners are good friends of mine and I can tell you that a good portion of their wild caught fish are indeed wild as one of the owners collected them himself. To think that only 10% of fish advertised as wildcaught are actually wild is a joke, there is a large amount of popular species that have proven impossible to breed or too difficult for farms to attempt in captivity.

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[squirrilah fish]

Most of the advice on here is, and should be geared towards what is BEST for your fish. You can do whatever you like, you can mix any fish you like, but if you come here asking for advice, your going to get straight answers. It's a pretty widely accepted concept that mixing cichlids from around the globe is a bad idea. Obviously it can be done, but it does not allow each fish to thrive, and live to it's fullest potential.

Personally, I am most worried about that Jack Dempsey. If it survives into adulthood, it will probably find a nice little hole in the corner, and never come out.


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