musings on filtration

[Phlegethon]

I'm at 6 months into this hobby. At first, the new HOB filters with their elaborate bio-wheels and tide chambers seemed indispensible. After tiring of the noise however I decided to switch, cold. Guess what. No ammonia spike, zero. The entire inside surface area of an aquarium is covered with bacteria. Frankly on a large tank (that isn't overstocked) I see very little reason to worry much about biological filtration. Am I way off base here? Of the three types of filtration; biological, mechanical, and chemical, it seems the only one I really need a filter for is mechanical. With a little current the surface area of the substrate, driftwood, and rocks in the tank are more than adequate for bacterial consumption of ammonia and nitrite (assuming a cycled tank of course). Chemical filtration is unnecessary except on the rare occasion when meds need to be filtered out. That leaves mechanical. So I bought an Aquaclear because of the large surface area and the ability to pack it with floss. Apparently this thing hasn't changed in 20 years, and it costs a fraction of an emperor or tetratec or magnum etc. etc.

Are all these new-fangled HOB filters really necessary or are they just a way to bring in business with all the hype?

 

[jclubb]

I think the HOB filters are very good *filters*. Easy to clean, a good place to put charcoal (if needed) and mine is quite. I agree with you that their value as a biological filter is somewhat limited.

 

[William]

Your Marineland filter with a biowheel was noisy?


are you sure the impeller was seated right?


Cause I own several Biowheel HOBs, and the only noise they make is the sound of the water falling back into the tank.

 

[AtodaJ]

If your tank is not over stocked and its been 6 months then I'm not surprised at all. Bio Wheels are very efficient biological filters but the fish hobby wasn't in shambles before they came along. Bio Wheels are most effective for over stocked tanks cause they simply can process a large portion of your bio load effeciently. With an over stocked tank (as many of us have) you would have seen a spike. You can also gravel vacum your whole tank and not worry about sucking up too many of your bacterial friends.

Personally I like the Bio Wheel because it gives me more of a sense of control in that I know where my primary bacterial colony is. It's not all over the tank but instead in the little spinning wheel.

 

[TankGirl]

I completely agree that the biowheel is not a requirement. I have a canister filter on my 55 and there is no biowheel present, yet when I moved my Eheim from that tank to another and got a Filstar for the 55, there was no ammonia spike or other event that resulted from removing the entire filter and contents, starting over fresh. The tank was established and the bacteria is present everywhere.

However, they are not all hype. They are insurance.

 

[William]

Biowheels are also a convenience.

You already have a old, established tank with a biowheel, and you set up a new tank.


Bio-Spira?

Who needs it! You got a mature biowheel right there, just throw it on the new filter on the new tank, and put the new biowheel on the old tank, instant cycle on the new tank, and the old tank is mature enough that it won't feel theeffect of missing the biowheel and can recolonise it without problem.


Plus, as was mentioned before, you don't have to be as careful with gravel vacs and everything else, since you know your biowheel has all the bacteria you need, you can vac the entire tank and take time and detail without wory of killing off all that good bacteria.

 

[Guest]

Bio Wheels aren't needed. Bacteria is everywhere.. Not to mention, Aqua Clears hold more bacteria than the Bio Wheels could hope too.. Its a shame that Bio Wheels are so over rated and Aqua Clears are under rated.. Must have something to do with the fact that people can't believe that something that is so simple can be actually good.

 

[William]

I used to run aquaclears, I had good reason to switch.

The water is cleaner, and I don't have to worry about the filters just dying for no good reason, or loosing their prime without cauise.

Something I delt with quite a bit with the aqua clears. I still have one, and it looses its prime, or just stops working atleast once a week. And before you say it, yes they are all clean, bolts fascend, nuts tightend, ect ect.


[ Bolts and nuts are an expresion just FYI, in other words.. everything is double checked and jsut as it should be ]

 

[Guest]

Funny.. Mine last for years and never any probs. Hmm. maybe I've been lucky or you were just unlucky.. I myself had bio wheels that had a tendecy to crap out. So I gave them the boot.. Too avoid any other discrepencies. I think both filters have their plus and minuses and its just a matter of preference. I'll leave it at that.

 

[AdamsZoological]

I've never had that problem with them either, or anyone I know for that matter. One person I know has actually had his for 11 years

 

[Phlegethon]

I can see there are a few good reasons to have a bio-wheel, especially in an overstocked/sparse tank. In a planted tank I'm guessing the surface area provided by all the foliage holds more bacteria than I care to think about.

So far the aquaclear is living up to its reputation, but all I really want it to do is catch floating particles and stir the water a little. Good thing floss is cheap.

 

[Christmasfish]

A bio wheel is a poor choice for most of my tanks becuase we have 85% labyrinth fish and keep water levels low as well as have no manufactured tops on half the tanks. The fish did not like my one try at one..they like to play in bubbles but dislike current and never even swim past where a hob dumps out. I tried it in all the tanks. My big tank could, but when I get the UGF gone in that ..I want cannister. So I must keep strict cleaning schedules so my undergravel filter doesn't become an undermygravel filther.....

I notice all the aquaclear endorsements are over units made and bought at least 3 years ago ...maybe they are made in a different location and of different materials now..so the newest purchasers are having quality issues? just a thought...

 

[AtodaJ]

In a planted tank I'm guessing the surface area provided by all the foliage holds more bacteria than I care to think about.

The plants do provide more surface area but more importantly the plants actually absorb the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate directly to a certain extent. Many believe, as I do, that HOB filters really shouldn't be used on heavily planted tanks for a couple of reasons. For starters the bacteria will actually compete with your plants to a certain extent (and a Bio Wheel makes the bacteria more competitive than I care for... hehe). Also you don't want a lot of surface agitation with a heavily planted tank cuz that just lets the CO2 escape that your plants need. Your plants eat the C02 and provide the O2 for your fishies. This is where internal filters come into play. I've got to pick one up pretty soon actually as I'm turning my 10g into a heavy planted tank.

Basically if you are having to inject C02 into your tank then you probably should try to minimize surface agitation as much as possible unless you don't mind refilling your C02 tanks more often... lol.

 

[Phlegethon]

I was actually using an internal (FLuval plus 4) but there was a problem I did not like - whenever I removed it for maintenance I had to shut it of, then lift it out, draining a massive cloud of gunk into the tank.

The bacteria competes with the plantlife?
Hm, I can just wash the filter media each week in tapwater that should "eliminate the competition" and enhance the mechanical filtration I'm looking for. Thanks for the inspiration!

Of course those stories I hear of filterless planted tanks are enticing...I wonder what would happen if I just used a very low-speed powerhead and removed filtration altogether, essentially turing the entire tank into one giant "plant filter" with a mass of floaters...?

 

[William]

The bacteria dosn't compete with the plantlife, The bacteria uses very little O2, if any at all. surely not enough to affect plants.

and plants do nothing to ammonia, the only stats they aid are the reduction of trates. Plants turn to mush of their exposed to ammonia.


The little, if any, they absorb is no where near enough to stabalize a tank without bacteria.

and lets face it, weither you want it or not, the bacteria is in your tank. On every single surface. Every plant, stem, rock, glass, heater, everything has a nice coating of bacteria on it, all happily munching away at ammonia.

 

[AtodaJ]

The bacteria dosn't compete with the plantlife, The bacteria uses very little O2, if any at all. surely not enough to affect plants.

and plants do nothing to ammonia, the only stats they aid are the reduction of trates. Plants turn to mush of their exposed to ammonia.

I used to think that too William but plants do affect ammonia and nitrites. Read Rex's postings in the plant section. There are also some articles out there discussing how plants will greatly soften the cycling process due to this very fact. And plants don't take in O2... they take in CO2 and expell O2 so the plants could care less how much O2 the bacteria take in.

 

[William]

The bacteria dosn't compete with the plantlife, The bacteria uses very little O2, if any at all. surely not enough to affect plants.

and plants do nothing to ammonia, the only stats they aid are the reduction of trates. Plants turn to mush of their exposed to ammonia.

I used to think that too William but plants do affect ammonia and nitrites. Read Rex's postings in the plant section. There are also some articles out there discussing how plants will greatly soften the cycling process due to this very fact. And plants don't take in O2... they take in CO2 and expell O2 so the plants could care less how much O2 the bacteria take in.

I made the mistake of starting a planted tank right off the bat, instead of waiting for the cycle.

I used ferts to keep the plants healthy so they didn't starve, However the ammonia of the cycle did not get any lower then my previous experiances, in the later stages it went a bit higher, as the plants died off and caused more decaying material. Even Java fern [ Isn't it described as the unkillable tank of the plant world? ] turned to nothing but mush from the ammonia.


They did nothing for the cycle, and only caused a greater headache in the long run by dying back almost to the verge of loosing the plants and making a mess of everything.

 

[patryuji]

Looks like an Aquaclear 300 ($21.49) is more expensive than a Penguin 330. ($20.49).

You could remove the biowheels and have a slightly higher flow for less money plus there are two separate media baskets (though the media baskets aren't really in the best location).

 

[AtodaJ]

I used ferts to keep the plants healthy so they didn't starve, However the ammonia of the cycle did not get any lower then my previous experiances.

IMHO... using the ferts right off the bat was the mistake there. Plants do process ammonia & nitrite. Here is a quote for ya:



"THE NATURAL AQUARIUM

Fish & plants compliment each other in a few very important ways. Plants provide shade, shelter,& food for some fish. Well lit plants release oxygen which fish need, & require carbon dioxide in return which fish release. Also, plants use nitrogenous waste from fish, as nutrients for their own growth, thus helping prevent a buildup of toxic nitrogen in the aquarium. Both ammonia & nitrites can be utilized by algae & plants. In your aquarium there are continual additions of nitrogenous compounds via fish waste & leftover fish food, so an abundant supply of healthy plants can provide an important margin of safety against the excessive accumulation of these nitrates. The term "The natural aquarium" means different things to different people, but basically it is the balance of healthy fish & plants which attempts to simulate specific natural habitats."

 

[patryuji]

What is the reference for that quote? A quote is meaningless without the referenced work being listed.

I tend to shy away from internet sources other than personal experience on message boards as most internet sources lack editors, publishers, etc and are very cheap. On the other hand, a message board has a large community of editors/cross examiners to help control incorrect information (unless the entire community incorrectly believes false information).

I cycled with some plants...you know what I found used the ammonia and nitrites quite well (though not enough to keep me from having definite peaks)? Algae (staghorn) exploded in growth during cycling but the plants just seemed to grow slowly. I thought hornwort would do a good job of sucking down the nutrients while I cycled but it didn't really start growing fast until after my tank was completely cycled. When I had a mini-cycle (from poor choices in tank treatment) the plants seemed to slow down in growth again. I could see the plants absorbing trace amounts of ammonia and nitrite but not enough to control the waste production of fish without the aid of bacteria.