My new 115G Cichlid tank - What you think?

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by DizzCat

Hi spoonman. I have been a lurker here for about a week and have not posted yet, but felt the need to give you some info you will need in the near future. So, you are my first post

I do not know about Mono's or Puffers or Fronts, but I do know Mbuna (all your other fish). Mbuna (that is said um-boo-nah) are rock dwelling fish from Lake Malawi in Africa. Mbuna means "rock fish". They live their lives in rocky habitats.

You are going to have trouble with 3 issues from mixing fish of different needs. 1, water requirements/ habitat, 2 diet and 3 aggression levels.

Puffers and Mono are brackish fish. Fronts are from lake Tanganyika. Mbuna are from Lake Malawi

Diet: If you feed the Mbuna foods like Blood worms more than once a month you run a huge risk of them developing Malawi bloat. They have very long intestines designed for low protein diets that are strictly vegetarian. Bloat usually kills a fish within a few days if not treated as soon as noticed. So, here's is the problem. You feed the Front a high protein diet it needs to grow and you run a huge risk with the lives of the other fish. You feed a low protein diet so the Mbuna do not get sick and your other fish grow but do not thrive.

Habitat: Mbuna need hard water with a high pH. A good pH level is 8.0-8.4. So, in order for them to thrive they need a higher pH than the Mono or Puffer. They also need a LOT more rocks than you have now. Their habitat is rocky, so they live, breed and thrive in a rock filled tank. Without enough rocks in there, there is not enough caves for them to take cover and they will start to fight for territory. That brings us to the next issue and one you will see very shortly, aggression levels.

Mbuna are highly territorial, aggressive fish. They may not be showing it now if they are small but will very soon. This is esspecially true when adults at 4-6". A single dominant male can wipe out an entire tank in a day! I understand about how your daughters picked out the fish, and you don't want to upset them, I am a mom too. I know they will be upset if you take back the Mono, Puffer and Front, but they will be a lot more upset when those Mbuna start beating the crap out of these fish until they kill them! I am surprised no one has mentioned this to you yet.

You need to decide on what type of tank you want. These fish are not going to make it together in the long run. If you go with a Mbuna tank you will not be sorry! They are very active fish, constantly on the go (another reason Fronts are not good with them, they stress the Fronts). If you set up groups your daughters will be able to watch as the females mouth brood their eggs and you will find tiny fry all the time.

If you go with Mbuna, first thing is get more rock in the tank. Google Mbuna setups to see different setups. I will attach mine to give you an idea. Second is to set up groups. Unless you go with an all male tank you need some females. It is hard to pick males and females when small, but if you get 4 of each you should be OK. The best ratio is 1 male to 3-6 females per group. They are harem breeders, so the male will harass a single female to death. That is why you get more than one. A single male only per species, or you will get two that fight for the females.

These are what you have:
Picture #2 is a Albino Zebra. Hard to tell what kind from the picture.

#4 is an OB Red Zebra (Metriaclima estherae (OB)
Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

#5 looks like a Melanochromis johannii, keep an eye on it, they are highly aggressive fish!
Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

#6 A Red Zebra Metriaclima estherae
Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

#8 Electric Yellow Lab (Labidochromis caeruleus)
Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

#9 is a Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum

Stay away from the following fish that are very common in fish stores. These are the most aggressive fish and will likely kill off the others when grown. The Kenyi, Bumble Bee and Auratus. I don't know why they are always in the stores! Probably people buy them, and bring them back a couple days later after they tore into the other fish.

Here is some reading to help you understand these issues I brought up.

Good luck!
African Cichlid Compatibility Issues

How To Setup a Rift Lake Aquarium

Mixed African Cichlids

Malawi Bloat

Reducing Aggression in Cichlids

Malawi Cichlids, Malawi Species Profiles, African Cichlids, Lake Malawi, Malawi Forum, Tanks, Articles, Books, Videos

Here is my Mbuna tank. I have Red Zebras, Yellow Labs, Acei, Ice Blues and Hongi. And a TON of fry everywhere!

DizzCat, What color blue are you using for your background? Nice tank by the way.

[spoonman]

So, the way I see it is the immediate issues that need to be addressed are:

1. Take the Mono Argentus, the Frontosa and the Puffer back to the LFS.
2. NO BLOODWORMS!
3. More rocks. Is lace rock a good option? I know someone that has a whole pile of it.

Should I also get more Mbuna? If so which ones and what sex? With those mentioned going back to the LFS I would have the following left:
1 yellow lab, 1 OB red zebra, 1 albino zebra, 1 Acei, 1 red zebra, 1 Melanochromis johannii. I want to do the right things to keep down aggresion mostly. Breeding is not that important to me, although a side benefit of happy fish.

[DizzCat]

DizzCat, What color blue are you using for your background? Nice tank by the way.

Thanks! I was wondering what you were talking about in that one post LOL.

I painted it a midnight blue. I used acrylic paint I got at a hobby store. It actually turned out lighter than I wanted, but I like it better. I had a black background and my darker fish, like my Acei blended in too well and I could hardly see them. So I went with the blue and now all fish stand out!

Here is another closer pic. This shows my Ice Blue (M Greshakei), a couple Acei, a Yellow Lab female, a small Yellow Lab born in the tank and the brown one up top is a female Ice Blue. I use a mix of big river rocks, then stacked on top of that is lava rocks. For extra caves I have pieces of black PVC pipe that are 3" round and 5" long, stuffed under all the rocks. All my fish except the juvies are 4-6" now. I always keep either one side or the center empty of rocks because my Acei love to dig in the sand. This area is always the common area and no one fish claims it. Oh yeah, I also have big fake plants in each corner to add a splash of color.

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by DizzCat

Thanks! I was wondering what you were talking about in that one post LOL.

I painted it a midnight blue. I used acrylic paint I got at a hobby store. It actually turned out lighter than I wanted, but I like it better. I had a black background and my darker fish, like my Acei blended in too well and I could hardly see them. So I went with the blue and now all fish stand out!

Here is another closer pic. This shows my Ice Blue (M Greshakei), a couple Acei, a Yellow Lab female, a small Yellow Lab born in the tank and the brown one up top is a female Ice Blue. I use a mix of big river rocks, then stacked on top of that is lava rocks. For extra caves I have pieces of black PVC pipe that are 3" round and 5" long, stuffed under all the rocks. All my fish except the juvies are 4-6" now. I always keep either one side or the center empty of rocks because my Acei love to dig in the sand. This area is always the common area and no one fish claims it. Oh yeah, I also have big fake plants in each corner to add a splash of color.

DizzCat
Thanks, I'm setting up my 120 SW and could not figure out what to do. Now i know what i need to do. Awesome setup.
I must apologize to spoonman for jumping in, I promise to behave.

[spoonman]

Thoughts on my last post????

[DizzCat]

Is lace rock a good option?

Do you mean lava rock or Texas holy rock? Is it white or reddish brown? If the white kind that is a great option because it will actually help keep your pH higher. Either one is fine. I can never figure out what people mean by lace rock because I have heard both kinds being called that. Just make sure when you stack them that they are secure because Mbuna love to dig and can make piles come crashing down! Just wiggle them to be sure. Its really not an issue until they get bigger. My 6" Ice Blue will kill piles if I am not careful, but his little 2" kids can't yet.

Should I also get more Mbuna? If so which ones and what sex? With those mentioned going back to the LFS I would have the following left:
1 yellow lab, 1 OB red zebra, 1 albino zebra, 1 Acei, 1 red zebra, 1 Melanochromis johannii.

More Mbuna is what you want to do. You want to fairly crowd them to keep aggression down. How this works is with more fish, the dominant one will not pick on one or two, but it will be spread out. Also, territories overlap with more.

This tank is 115 gallons, right? You can get a lot more. I would try to get 3 more of each for now. After they settle in and you get the hang of it you can get more. Try to go one male and 3 females. Try not to get more than one male per species or they will fight. A lot of people will tell you the only way to tell is by the egg spots on their anal fins, that males have them, females don't. This is not true. All my females but my yellow labs have just as many as my males. The only sure way of knowing if you have males and females, unless they are dimorphic (like my Ice Blues, males are blue, females brown) is to vent them. Venting is looking at their openings on the belly. This is hard to do, especially that small. Or when you find a female with a mouthful of eggs.

Your OB zebra and red Zebra are actually the same species. The OB is just an Orange Blotch. Male Red Zebras will have a blue sheen to their fins and body. An easy way to tell when they are small is to shine a flash light on it to see if it has a lot of blue. My females have a small amount of blue in their anal fins, but none in the dorsal or body. If the one you already have does then try to get a couple more females.

A male Yellow Lab will have much darker, heavier black stripes in the fins than females do. The pic of yours looks like it could be a male. Females will have black, just not as strong. Try getting 3 females if you think its a male.

With Acei, its almost impossible to tell the difference until they reach almost 5"! Just get 3 more and cross your fingers one is a male. I kept getting females until my LFS got in some big adults, then I was able to pick a male. They are mellow so wont fight. Acei actually are the only Mbuna who school, so you will see them swimming around together all day. They are my favorite in my tank, always out going and busy.

As for the white one, unless you know exactly what kind it is, I would just leave it as a single for now. There are many albino zebras.

If I were you I would also not get any more johannii. They are highly aggressive and more may cause a whole lot of trouble. Most people who go with a Mbuna setup have their groups of 1 male, a few females then have a couple stand alone males to add color. This is what my Hongi is for. When he matures he will be a light lavender with dark purple vertical stripes and a gold face mask.

Hope this helps. I know it helped me have someone walk me thru the steps when I first set up. I am glad to help others now.

Yeah, stay away from the blood worms. A treat once in awhile is fine, but not often. Try the cucumber, you'll get a kick out of watching them rip into it

[DizzCat]

Thoughts on my last post????

LOL you posted while I was typing!

[spoonman]

The lace rock that my friend has is kind of a dingy white color. Am going to see if he still has some left. Thanks for all the help. If the LFS wont take the fishes back I will find good homes for them. I will work on getting the additional fish in the next few weeks. Maybe if I tell the LFS guy how many more Mbuna I want he will be more inclined to take back the others.

[DizzCat]

He might. My store will trade me if I need to bring one back or I bring in young ones. They give me store credit. I usually end up getting another fish.

Sounds like the rock is the holy rock. If so that will really help with the pH. It raises it naturally.

[spoonman]

While researching the Mangano I found this fish (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos). Is it possible this is the one that I have? This one is less aggresive and to me looks exactly the same. Is there a way to tell the two apart?