New 40gal for Discus

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Mack

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
20
Location
Canada
I am just done with my new 40gal tank.Am using UGF and internal filter with some bio media.I built 20gal tank as QT.However I have some questions about keeping discus:
1.I already ordered 5 2-3 inc discus.Is it too much for 40gal?
2.What is the most common diseases that would effect them?
3.What is the ideal temp ?
4.I will Qt them for about 2-3 weeks in a bare bottom tank with daily water changes.Is there any thing else I should do?
Then I will move them to my 40gal tank which has gravel in it.I already ordered gravel vac for daily cleaning since they need very clean water plus 10% daily water changes.Is that enough?
5.I will be feeding bloodworms,flakes,frozen dried food and cichlid dite?
If there is any other information please let me know.I have been reading a lot about keeping discus in the past few months and I just started so wich me luck.
 
Hey brian how is ur fish man(need some pics) .I went out of town so I could not get started,but am back and am all set :D
 
Very cool Mack. I'm glad I have someone else on AA to talk discus with, and I do have some newer pics in my gallery :D I'll answer your questions in order.
1. Excellent. That's a good # of fish and a good tank to grow them to full size in.
what size is your bare bottom tank now?
2. Hex. It's a parasite common in all discus. The disease is brought on by stress. The symptoms are loss of appetite, and long stringy white feces. This will take a long time to kill the fish but left untreated it will. If you notice this PM me at once.
3. 84 degrees
4. Depends a lot on the size of the tank. Start by doing 30% daily water changes and use a dechlor. You can add water right from the tap (assuming it's not too hard). Do a temp test when making the changes so as not to shock the fish. I approximate the temp by feel being sure the water I'm adding is slightly warmer.
5. Your choice of food is great. For some reason my discus love Tetra Color bits, so try adding them to their diet. Also, I recommend feeding live CBW for optimum growth.
6. Please Mack. Nix the UGF. Get a good sponge filter instead (even in your grow out tank). The Hydro IV is only $8.95 US at bigalsonline. This does 3 things for you. Adds a great biomass. Circulates the water gently, and restores oxygen wich depletes quickly at the high temps discus require.


7. Don't get discouraged if things don't go as you plan right away. Discus take a little more patience. I hope you find caring for these special fish as rewarding as I do.

8. Good Luck :D :D :D Let's see some pics soon!!!
 
Thanks Brian you were very helpful,
Am using small sponge filter as you recommended last time Brian.But why do I have to skip the UGF?Every thing is already working nicely(it is not easy to remove :cry: )
As for that HEX disease .Does it need special parasite treatment? I already got some Anti-parasite meds.The bare bottom tank is about 20gal, am using it as QT.
 
YW Mack. Yeah, and I just saw you wrote a 20 gal QT. The UGF. All the crap they pull down under the plates eventually clogs them, then the poisons actually work there way up through the gravel. You don't have to deal with it right away, but eventually you will.

Umm. Are there any fish in the 40 gal now? I assume you've got test kits for PH, GH, KH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. I'd really like to know the PH and KH of your tap water 1. straight from the tap and 2. left standing with an airstone overnight. This will give us some idea of how stable your PH is in relation to the CO2 level of your tap water.

As for the Hex. Treating is a little more complicated than simply medicating the tank. I use something called metro, and I'd really have to have an in depth discussion with you about how to treat for this. So let's cross that bridge if and when you get there.

One more thing. Gill flukes are pretty common too. Symptoms are very rapid respiration rate, or breathing with only one gill. Although (knock on wood), I haven't had that one yet.
 
Hi Mack, this is a caresheet my finace and I wrote up some time ago, thought I would go ahead and post it incase it could be of some use to you.

Angela

Basic Requirements and Care For maintaining Discus Fish (Symphysodon heckeli, & Symphysodn discus)

Basic Aquarium Set-Up
When first purchasing discus you have to consider tank size, you will want to have approximately 15gallons or more per fish. For example, a suitable sized tank for four adult Discus would be a 75gallon tank. In your tank it is best to keep exclusively Discus, but if you want to add other species, make sure that they are not fish that will pick on your Discus, or be too boisterous as to stress your Discus, two good choices are Angelfish and German Rams.
Another very crucial consideration when thinking about Discus is filtration, these fish are highly intolerable of poor water conditions, so filtration is a major factor in their care. A good way to go with filtration for your Discus aquarium is to hook up a high output external cannister filter with a good biolgical filter media inside, along with the external cannister you can also use one or more 'PowerHeads' which you can outfit with a sponge pre-filter for the purpose of removing any additional free floating particles. In addition to stong filtration, frequent water changes are essential to keep your Discus thriving, I usually recommend approximately 20-25% at least twice weekly.
The last major thing to look at when setting up your tank is how to decorate or 'AquaScape' the artificial environment that you are setting up. A very common direction to go when setting up a Discus aquarium is to go the route of a planted aquarium, this will help in keeping a healthy environment for your fish, as well as giving them a retreat if they get startled or just feel that they need to hide. Along with the plants you choose, which there are many to choose from, you can also go with driftwood and/or small amounts of rock work to finish off the look of your aquarium, a substrate that works well in this type of set-up is a medium-grain sand such as Silica sand. If you decide to go with a planted aquarium for your discus, you need to look at how you plan to light it, depending on the size of the tank you choose, you will likely need anywhere from 2watts of light per gallon and up, you may also want to look into investing into a CO2(Carbon Dioxide) injector to help keep your plants thriving.

Creating the Proper Conditions
The first point to mention in this section would be water temperature. Discus like their water warm, much warmer than many other tropical fish. Most Discus(S. heckeli) do well in temperatures ranging from 79-84F(26-29C), although the Heckel Discus(S. discus) need higher temperatures from 81-86F(27-30C).
The next topic would be with your chemical elements pertaining to water conditions. Discus are accustomed to very soft and slightly acidic waters. The total hardness of your water should range from 10-40ppm, and your pH should range from 6.0-6.5, if your water source is hard or alkaline you can help this by adding elements to soften the water such as aquarium safe peat moss, aquarium chemicals designed specifically to soften water, as well as adding extra plants to your aquarium. Another very important point about water conditions is the elements that are in relation to the nitrogen cycle, or bilogical filtration. This process produces three main components, Ammonia(NH3), Nitrite(NO2), and Nitrates(NO3), both ammonia and nitrite is extremely toxic to most fish, and especially to discus. The third element to this, Nitrates, are not as toxic if kept at very low levels, if these levels get too high, this too can become toxic, so therefore you want to keep up with frequent water changes as was mentioned in the previous section.

Feeding
One thing to keep in mind when choosing foods for your Discus is the way these fish are designed, unlike many other NeoTropical Cichlids, Discus are not designed to be 'Gorge Feeders', they have very slender bodies, and a very tiny mouth so be sure to feed food that is the appropriate size, also you never want to give them large meals, smaller meals more frequently is always a much better idea. Also be sure not to have your Discus being fed one food too often, they can very easily become 'addicted' to one food and refuse all others, so be sure to keep the diet as varied as possible.
Finding dried or frozen foods that your Discus will accept can be a challenge, they are known to be very picky eaters, so basically, it may be a process of trial and error until you start finding foods that they will like. Another thing that is interesting about these fish is that they may go for quite some time without eating at all, this is normally nothing to worry about, although most keepers automatically panic. This can sometimes go on for up to a month, when, just as quickly as it ceased, feeding begins again, some people speculate this is to rid the body of built up waste products, but it is not entirely certain, but in most cases, unless the fish appears stressed, ill, or the water conditions are suffering, a Discus ceasing to feed is nothing to be overly concerned about.

Conclusion
If these fish are cared for properly, they will keep you in the hobby for many, many years. Discus aren't called 'The King of Aquarium Fish' for no reason, they're big, beautiful, and fascinating animals to care for, and to have in your home, almost nothing in the aquarium hobby has beauty that compares to that of a large tank filled with large, brightly colored, and healthy Discus. You can be certain that if kept happy and healthy, Discus are a fish that you will never tire of.
 
Hi Angela. I'm always impressed when people take the time to write an article like the one you've posted. I'm even more impressed when the goal is to share info and be helpful to others. Just goes to show what a terrific board this is.

I find your articlce to contain some great advice. Especially on feeding and water cleanliness. I do have to vehemently disagree with some of the info you've written. What I've learned about discus comes from my visits to breeders as well as my personal experiences in caring for them. Here's what I've learned:

1. PH and hardness are not all that important in keeping these fish (it's a different story if the goal is to spawn). Discus can happily adapt to any conditions as long they're not extremely harsh. In fact, more harm can be done by trying to tweak PH and KH. Because water changes are so important, the fish will be less stressed by acclimating them to the water conditions of the owner. My discus are laying eggs in a PH of 7.7 .

2. The only thing discus require in their tank is other discus. They are a very social animal and do best in large numbers. I have 9 adults in a 55 gal. I've seen as many as 14 kept succesfully in a tank of that size. The reason of course is the water changes. So that rule of fish per gallon simply doesn't apply.

3. Any discus that doesn't eat is caused by some form of stress or disease. A discus that goes on a hunger strike should be watched carefully to determine and treat the cause. I'm not not talking about not eating for a day, but more than one day means there is a problem.

Brian
 
This is a very inspiring thread! (*glancing over at understocked, heavily planted 55...*)
 
Brian,
Sure they CAN live fine the way you said, but, doesnt mean its best for them. There is a difference in what they will live in, and what's optimum for them. As with anything else, everything doesnt have to be perfect for them to simply survive and exist, but I dont see what's wrong with giving someone facts about what is preferred living conditions, and the elements for an optimum environment.

Mitch
 
Well, Brian goes the extra mile for his discus, I can tell you, and he is quite dedicated to them, with a strict water change regimen and the utmost care that many would not provide. There are definitely several different schools of thought when it comes to discus, so it is good for us to read about the experiences of more than one discus keeper.
 
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