New owner of a huge cichlid. Need help with aquarium set-up.

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SpyGuy

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Joined
Dec 22, 2010
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Last December, I was looking for a used tank because my daughter's fish were getting too big for their tank. I found someone selling a 46g bowfront for a good price so I went to buy it. The catch was that it contained a 7-8" cichlid. The seller told me it was a Red Devil hybrid. Well, I didn't want to turn the fish over to a pet store, so now we have this cichlid; my daugher has named him "Gulp." He must like the way we take care of him because he's grown over an inch in length and his forehead bump is much larger now than it was 4-1/2 months ago when we got him. I know that the 46g tank is too small for him, so I've bought a used 72g bowfront.

Some of the things I've learned since owning "Gulp"...

1. He's become much more aggressive since we've had him. At the beginning, I could put my whole arm in the tank to clean, arrange decor, etc., and Gulp would avoid me, going to the opposite side of the tank. Now he tries to attack me. I let him bite me once because I didn't think it would be a big deal and he broke skin, like a bad road rash the size of a penny, and leaving a nice scar on my arm. Now I am much more wary and have to constantly be on guard when I have my arm in the tank.

2. He will not coexist with other fish. We have a 9-10" common pleco and I was hoping the pleco could hold his own because of his size. I placed a large rock shaped like a half pipe that the pleco can fit completely inside so he has a place of refuge. But Gulp can't seem to get along. He is constantly trying to get into the cave from either end, even though it's impossible to fit. The pleco is fine, but he's going to stay in the 46g tank; I'm not going to move him into the 72g tank when I get it set-up for Gulp.

3. The 46g tank came with gravel (horrible red & black clown puke). At first, Gulp didn't do too much with the substrate, just a little digging and spitting, mostly in the same place so the gravel stayed fairly level. Now that he's grown and become more aggressive, he's performing major excavations. He takes all the gravel from the two ends of the tank and piles them up against the center of the front glass, making a giant mountain. I think part of this is he's trying to dig out the front/back of the cave to get the pleco, and part of it is just to annoy me because the front center area is where I have some plants and he constantly buries them. (He doesn't move the gravel to the back of the tank where there are no plants.) When I move him into the to 72g tank, I'm going to put black sand which will really accentuate his bright red-orange color. But I know he will always dig, so I'm trying to figure out how to keep him from exposing the glass floor, how to keep him from making a mountain against the front of the tank, and how to keep him from burying plants and rocks.

4. One of the reasons I wanted the pleco in the tank was to help keep algae under control. Fail. I never have blooms: the water is always clear. But there is algae always growing on the glass. It used to be green, but is now brown since adding much brighter LED lighting. It grows fast! How do I control this when I have a fish that won't tolerate algae cleaners (or my hand/arm in the tank)? I've got one of the large magnetic glass cleaners, but it really doesn't work all that well. I've looked at Aqueon's telescopic cleaning pole, and that will probably work better. But it still wont allow me to scrub things like filter intake tubes.

5. I know that cichlids are considered incompatible with plants, but I am determined to find a way to make this work! I like plants in my aquariums, both for their natural beauty (no fake plants for me) and because they help condition the water. Gulp hasn't really chewed up the plants, but he has uprooted them or buried them. I've been thinking of potting my plants in shallow trays, putting a screen over the top of the tray (with the plant stems sticking through) and then burying the tray under the sand. But that still won't stop him from uncovering the trays or from burying the plants. Although if the plants are big enough and dense enough, that may mitigate those issues.

6. Gulp poops like a mad man! I feed him Hikari Gold small and medium pellets and he drops huge feces. I bought a Hydor Koralia 750-850, and positioned it near the top of the tank pointed down at an angle to help circulate the water and stir up debris so it would get sucked into the filter intake, but that doesn't really work too well. Most of the poop just stays on the gravel and works it's way into dead zones. I was thinking of trying to add under-sand jets to the 72g tank, but I'm sure Gulp will just uncover all the piping. Perhaps I could lay pieces of slate all over the bottom of the tank with the piping running in the gaps between the pieces, and then bury everything in sand. That way, he can dig down and expose the slate, but the tank bottom and the piping will still be hidden.

7. The 46g tank came with a Marineland Penguin 350 HOB filter. To that, I added an API Filstar XP-M canister. I really wanted to get rid of the HOB because they are unsightly and force me to keep the tank 3" from the wall. They are also noisy if the tank water drops below the return outfalls. But the one thing I do like about the HOB is that it's water through-put never diminishes the way the canister does as it collects debris. When I move Gulp to the 72g tank, I will use an API Filstar XP-L canister, and keep the XP-M on the 46g tank for the pleco and my daughter's other fish. I'll probably buy another Marineland HOB for the 72g tank.

8. Where do you guys buy slate, large rocks, and big pieces of driftwood? The local pet/fish stores don't have much selection, they are all small, and their prices are too high. I haven't found a good online source, and it seems you're at the mercy of what the seller picks for you.

I'd appreciate all the advice I can get.
 
Sounds like you're doing everything you can and doing everything correctly! You are obviously a very committed fish keeper. Ok, first off: I think the 72 will be fine. I'm not a big cichlid guy, but there are some people here who know everything so hopefully they help out! I can't help out on plants either, but I'm definitely following to see how this turns out! For slate and wood I go to my local landscape store, they have huge piles of slate and I buy a piece and just hit it with a hammer a couple times, giving me some cool pieces. Hope someone else more experienced chimes in.
 
Can we get a picture of "Gulp"? From the bump on his head he could be a Flowerhorn. Also indicates why he is so dang aggressive(sorry about the arm!).

Flower horns get really big and need to be kept alone because they are so mean.

Other cichlids get the bump on the forehead but being so aggressive I figure a Flowerhorn would be good to rule out first.

Caleb
 
Can we get a picture of "Gulp"? From the bump on his head he could be a Flowerhorn. Also indicates why he is so dang aggressive(sorry about the arm!).

Flower horns get really big and need to be kept alone because they are so mean.

Other cichlids get the bump on the forehead but being so aggressive I figure a Flowerhorn would be good to rule out first.

Caleb


Midevils often develop koks (nuchal humps) and those are amphilophus labiatus/citrinellum hybrids. Midevils, and their parent species, are also very aggressive and easily capable of drawing blood.


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Midevils often develop koks (nuchal humps) and those are amphilophus labiatus/citrinellum hybrids. Midevils, and their parent species, are also very aggressive and easily capable of drawing blood.


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You and your scientific names... Gonna have to look those up :p I know other species can get them I just figured we gotta start somewhere.


Caleb
 
Last December, I was looking for a used tank because my daughter's fish were getting too big for their tank. I found someone selling a 46g bowfront for a good price so I went to buy it. The catch was that it contained a 7-8" cichlid. The seller told me it was a Red Devil hybrid. Well, I didn't want to turn the fish over to a pet store, so now we have this cichlid; my daugher has named him "Gulp." He must like the way we take care of him because he's grown over an inch in length and his forehead bump is much larger now than it was 4-1/2 months ago when we got him. I know that the 46g tank is too small for him, so I've bought a used 72g bowfront.
Most likely a male midevil. will max out around 12" to 13"

Some of the things I've learned since owning "Gulp"...

1. He's become much more aggressive since we've had him. At the beginning, I could put my whole arm in the tank to clean, arrange decor, etc., and Gulp would avoid me, going to the opposite side of the tank. Now he tries to attack me. I let him bite me once because I didn't think it would be a big deal and he broke skin, like a bad road rash the size of a penny, and leaving a nice scar on my arm. Now I am much more wary and have to constantly be on guard when I have my arm in the tank.
He will get more aggressive as he get older.

2. He will not coexist with other fish. We have a 9-10" common pleco and I was hoping the pleco could hold his own because of his size. I placed a large rock shaped like a half pipe that the pleco can fit completely inside so he has a place of refuge. But Gulp can't seem to get along. He is constantly trying to get into the cave from either end, even though it's impossible to fit. The pleco is fine, but he's going to stay in the 46g tank; I'm not going to move him into the 72g tank when I get it set-up for Gulp.
In a 72 he will need to remain as a wet pet. Even if he cant get past the armor on the pleco he will tear the eyes out.
3. The 46g tank came with gravel (horrible red & black clown puke). At first, Gulp didn't do too much with the substrate, just a little digging and spitting, mostly in the same place so the gravel stayed fairly level. Now that he's grown and become more aggressive, he's performing major excavations. He takes all the gravel from the two ends of the tank and piles them up against the center of the front glass, making a giant mountain. I think part of this is he's trying to dig out the front/back of the cave to get the pleco, and part of it is just to annoy me because the front center area is where I have some plants and he constantly buries them. (He doesn't move the gravel to the back of the tank where there are no plants.) When I move him into the to 72g tank, I'm going to put black sand which will really accentuate his bright red-orange color. But I know he will always dig, so I'm trying to figure out how to keep him from exposing the glass floor, how to keep him from making a mountain against the front of the tank, and how to keep him from burying plants and rocks.
Do not put anything light enough that he can lift and smash against the glass. I found this out the hard way.

4. One of the reasons I wanted the pleco in the tank was to help keep algae under control. Fail. I never have blooms: the water is always clear. But there is algae always growing on the glass. It used to be green, but is now brown since adding much brighter LED lighting. It grows fast! How do I control this when I have a fish that won't tolerate algae cleaners (or my hand/arm in the tank)? I've got one of the large magnetic glass cleaners, but it really doesn't work all that well. I've looked at Aqueon's telescopic cleaning pole, and that will probably work better. But it still wont allow me to scrub things like filter intake tubes.
I use a regular algae pad on a stick and distract my hybrid with a separate pole that he attacks while im using it. I also do about an 80% water change at the same time weekly so there is just enough water for him to stay up right. Makes it harder for him to het to where im cleaning.
5. I know that cichlids are considered incompatible with plants, but I am determined to find a way to make this work! I like plants in my aquariums, both for their natural beauty (no fake plants for me) and because they help condition the water. Gulp hasn't really chewed up the plants, but he has uprooted them or buried them. I've been thinking of potting my plants in shallow trays, putting a screen over the top of the tray (with the plant stems sticking through) and then burying the tray under the sand. But that still won't stop him from uncovering the trays or from burying the plants. Although if the plants are big enough and dense enough, that may mitigate those issues.
He will simply swim around with the plant and pot and put it where he wants it. May even crack the glass bouncing it off the glass.

6. Gulp poops like a mad man! I feed him Hikari Gold small and medium pellets and he drops huge feces. I bought a Hydor Koralia 750-850, and positioned it near the top of the tank pointed down at an angle to help circulate the water and stir up debris so it would get sucked into the filter intake, but that doesn't really work too well. Most of the poop just stays on the gravel and works it's way into dead zones. I was thinking of trying to add under-sand jets to the 72g tank, but I'm sure Gulp will just uncover all the piping. Perhaps I could lay pieces of slate all over the bottom of the tank with the piping running in the gaps between the pieces, and then bury everything in sand. That way, he can dig down and expose the slate, but the tank bottom and the piping will still be hidden.
Get a python and use it as needed. Look to have at least 10x the GPH for the filter.
7. The 46g tank came with a Marineland Penguin 350 HOB filter. To that, I added an API Filstar XP-M canister. I really wanted to get rid of the HOB because they are unsightly and force me to keep the tank 3" from the wall. They are also noisy if the tank water drops below the return outfalls. But the one thing I do like about the HOB is that it's water through-put never diminishes the way the canister does as it collects debris. When I move Gulp to the 72g tank, I will use an API Filstar XP-L canister, and keep the XP-M on the 46g tank for the pleco and my daughter's other fish. I'll probably buy another Marineland HOB for the 72g tank.
Again at least 10x gph
8. Where do you guys buy slate, large rocks, and big pieces of driftwood? The local pet/fish stores don't have much selection, they are all small, and their prices are too high. I haven't found a good online source, and it seems you're at the mercy of what the seller picks for you.
Check land scape stores.

I'd appreciate all the advice I can get.
 
You and your scientific names... Gonna have to look those up :p I know other species can get them I just figured we gotta start somewhere.


Caleb


Red devil and midas, respectively.

Almost all specimens labeled as either species are actually a hybrid of the two. To find pure specimens, you usually have to get wild caught or someone who knows the lineage of their breeding stock


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You and your scientific names... Gonna have to look those up :p I know other species can get them I just figured we gotta start somewhere.


Caleb

Common names
amphilophus labiatus = Red devil
citrinellum = Midas


EDIT: Sniped by Freakgeco
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I'll post photos later today.
 
I would try to rehome the pleco. They get too big for probably any tank you'd want to bother with. For reference:
jpglensaebigfish35418.jpg
 
The body looks like there could be some blood parrot as well

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I was thinking more from being stunted due to the tank size


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