Newbie with inherited aquariums needs help

[kane65]

I just inherited a tank with cichlids, a gar & an unidentified catfish. I've had fish before but never had problems so I don't know how to handles the following. The water is cloudy (white) and I just got a test kit and here are the measurements. The fish look in bad shape. The gar & catfish have frayed fins. The cichlids fins look ok. I'm reading up to figure out what they should look like.

Temp 79
Ammonia 6.0
Nitrate 160
Nitrite 0
Hardness 300
Alk 0
pH 6

I'm using test strips so the measurements are approximates. What do I do? I have tons of chemicals that came along with the tank but I'm not sure where to begin. Would the one that has beneficial bacteria be the best place to start? I'm sure I need a water change but how much?

 

[savga]

Your ammonia and nitrates are at toxic levels! You should do an emergency 50% water change asap. Use conditioned tap water that has been adjusted to the same temp. Continue doing a 20 % or so water change daily to get your ammonia and nitrate levels down. I wouldn't usually do more than a 20% a day but I'm sure your fish would like to get out of that toxic water.

 

[kane65]

I should have mentioned that I did a major change because of the cloudiness. I think I changed about 35-40%. It only made the water more cloudy. I did a 15% change yesterday as well. I guess I'll do a 20% or so today. Is there anything else I can do?

 

[Menagerie]

Most of those chemicals that came with the tank are probably unnecessary. You NEED to do 50% changes daily until those values come down. You want ammonia at zero and nitrate under 40 ppm.
What kind of cichlids are you keeping? South Africans, South/Central Americans? They all have very different water needs. I just want to make sure your pH is okay for the fish.
When you change the water, are you vacuuming the gravel? What product do you have with beneficial bacteria?

 

[kane65]

I'm not positively sure of the types of Cichlids. One looks like a black convict although you can barely see the stripes... he looks all black. The other appears to be a Severum (not sure of the normal name... found it in a book.) The third is one that has been hidden so I haven't got enough on him yet. And then there's a gar, a catfish and I think I saw a catfish or pleco with a big white stripe on it's body. Didn't get a good look at it. Anyway... I've been reading a bit and am worried that I cleaned the tank too well when I got it and maybe killed beneficial bacteria. There's somekind of powerfilter on the aquarium. It has the normal fiber filter with charcoal and then a sponge. I changed the filter and thoroughly cleaned the sponge and after reading, I think I wasn't supposed to do that since it held a lot of bacteria. I also vaccumed the bottom.

The only bio stuff that I have is called cycle/nutrafin (not sure which is the brand name.) Thanks for the help

 

[Allivymar]

The cloudiness is due in part to the imbalance in nitrifying bacteria. Its caused by heterotrophic bacteria, who show up and party sometimes, when theres not enough nitrifying bacteria to compete. Not dangerous in and of itself, just unsightly.

The ammonia and nitrite levels ARE dangerous tho. Ammonia burns the gills (and other tissues), nitrite prevent oxygen from getting to the fish (kinda like carbon monoxide does with people) and either way the fish suffocate. Water changes are really the only way to keep the fish healthy until the good bacteria start recolonizing the tank. Cycle (the product) won't help, although it might contribute to the cloudiness.

The nitrogenous waste also stresses fish really badly, and opens the door to disease; thats probably the root cause of the frayed fins. Hopefully, fresh clean treated water will give the fish's immune system the boost needed to fish off the infection. If it doesn't you may have to isolate them and treat them with antibiotics.

Also, what size tank?

 

[kane65]

The tank is a 25 gallon, at least that's what I think. It's an acrylic with a non-rectangular shape. However, I'm thinking about putting my Uromastyx in a different enclosure and using his (50 gallon) tank. Would bleach damage the silicone and would an hour or two soak in bleach be ok to clean it? Also, if I do this would it be best to start the cycling off with the filter from their current aquarium (for bacteria) or would a fresh start be better. I have some feeder goldfish (for the gar) that I could use for cycling. Thanks so much for your help. I'm fairly inexperienced in the fish-world.

 

[duaumun]

Wow, gonna need a ton of water changes. Menagerie is exactly right, you have got to gravel vaccum. Make sure the class is clean, and try putting a bag of carbon in the filter, and see if that improves the cloudiness.

 

[kane65]

Thanks. Did another change... maybe 25% or so this eve. Question... Do you think the Gar causes the Cichlids stress? They don't seem to mess with each other though the convict isn't afraid to go after a goldfish that's already in the Gar's mouth.

Also, one of the Cichlids... the orange one... looks horrible. It just hangs in the plants with it's head pointing down. It might come out if food is right beside it but it won't come to the top to get anything.

Do I wait until the morning to test water again or even longer?

 

[Menagerie]

You can test.
The fish are mainly stressed due to the ammonia and nitrates. 25% water change isn't that much. You only reduced the levels by 1/4. 50% water changes are necessary right now.

 

[kane65]

I'm going to do a 50 today.

Should I continue with 50% changes until problem is resolved?
Is it ok to vacum all gravel or is there such a thing as over cleaning?

Thx much

 

[Menagerie]

When the toxic levels are as high as they are in your tank, no--clean away!! Under normal circumstances, I would recommend no more than a 25% water change while gravel vacuuming.
In your case, continue with 50% water changes until the ammonia and nitrates come down. You want to vacuum all the gravel to get rid of waste and food particles. These are contributing to the high ammonia and nitrate. Post your water parameters after the clean.

 

[kane65]

Ok, I'm vaccuming away now. So filthy it's unbelievable. I also did the other tank I received. The levels in the tank were ok. It seemed balanced. However, I found that there was an unused undergravel filter in it. Just the plastic plates. When I removed them the water turned black. It's slowly clearing but I guess I'm in the same boat with that one now... 50% changes. These are tough fish to be alive. The other tank also has a blue crayfish that is beautiful.

 

[Menagerie]

So filthy it's unbelievable.

Well, that's partially to blame for the poor water parameters.

How are the water parameters now? How are the fish doing?

 

[kane65]

Here are this morning's readings... I'm using test strips so their approximate. Tank 1 listed 1st is the Af. Cichlid tank (with a Gar & 2 catfish). It's been the biggest problem. Tank 2 contains serpae tetra including 6 babies & a blue crayfish.

Ammon .5-3 / 0-.25
Nitrate 40 / 80
Nitrite 0 / 0
GH 150 / 150
KH 0 / 40
Ph 6.2 / 6.2
Temp 81.9 / 74.3

I'm trying to learn this so any help would be appreciated. Both tanks have been vacuumed and vacuumed and vacuumed. Tank 1 has had I believe 3 25% water changes in a row followed by 2 50% changes. Tank 2 had a 25% water change then 2 50% changes. I'm afraid to do any more major water changes.

The tetra look fine. The fish in the other tank have frayed fins but that's the only obvious thing I see wrong.

Thanks,
Kane

 

[Menagerie]

I'm afraid to do any more major water changes.

Don't be. Tank 1 is still too high in ammonia. If you can, go out and get the liquid tests so you can be sure of the readings. Continue with daily 25% changes on tank 1 until the level of ammonia is 0-.25. Tank 2 is looking good as far as ammonia, but the pH is a bit low for the inhabitants. Try adding some shells or a limestone rock to bring up the pH a bit--this will happen gradually and will not upset the fish. Continue to test tank 2 daily and if the ammonia goes up again, do another water change. If it stays down, do weekly 25% water changes while vacuuming the gravel.

How are the fish doing??

 

[kane65]

* Tank 1 is down to ammonia level of 1. I bought a liquid test kit so I can get a better reading. It's cloudier today than it's been in 2 days but hopefully that's good bacteria.

* I'm going to be moving my cichlids into a 55 gallon. It used to house my uromastyx lizard so i need to clean. Would a bleach solution for 24 hours be an ok way to clean it?

* I also will be getting another 55 that I got off e-bay. It comes with a large oscar so I'll probably move the gar into it.

Thanks

 

[Menagerie]

Would a bleach solution for 24 hours be an ok way to clean it?

Very little bleach is needed. Then you must rinse, rinse, rinse.