Okay Ally..thinkin on angels

[Christmasfish]

I want a theme tank for my living room smaller than the 177 for the BKG. I want it black and white mostly. And angels are going to be the stars.
To keep colors from mucking up will groups of different types prevent that?
I want the stripey ones some white ones adn black laces. I want at least 2-4 fair size ones as centerpiece. At least a dozen various
And botia bottom cleaners I guess.
Tell me some tank facts....

 

[patryuji]

Wouldn't you have a problem with the larger ones bullying the smaller ones? Especially if a pair of larger ones decide to mate?

Sun loach is a dark loach (botia eos). Yo-yo loach (botia almorhae) would go with the stripey patterned angels and they are somewhat a silvery and dark color. Stay away from tiger loaches (botia hymenophysa) as it has no qualms about attacking angelfish 5 times its size and nipping their fins as well (though they do fit the theme you are trying to establish color/pattern wise).

You don't want to go for corydoras for bottom cleaners? It is very easy to find corys without colors...and my angelfish gets along with the corys just fine (they ignore eachother other than when a cory clumsily bumps into the angelfish and startles it).

 

[Christmasfish]

Heh..there are some cories that may fit the patterns as well too but harder to find...but I am thinking .
Sids would look nice doncha think ^_^.
Skunk botias are scrappy lil loaches.
I am first filling my top/mid layer. I plan to have many in/out decoration and some proper dither fish.
But I need to know a reasonably safe dimension to have that many various angels and allow aggression dithering through plants decorations and non angels. Prolly the adult penguins or somethin. I dont know if 3 inches are enough.
And I am not sure if freshwater angels have very many specie varieties or is it all morphs? I'd like a size range of the 6 inchers and then 4 -4ish inch and then a handful of smaller.
I would like wild type stripey ones as my biggest I think. I like marbles..the plain kind.

But just cuz like it doesn't mean I can make it happen..or I would have 12 betta in a 40. ^_^

 

[patryuji]

Yes sidthimunki would be nice if you can find them at a reasonable price (last time I saw was $14.99 for each 1 inch fish).

I wouldn't think skunks would fit what you wanted due to their pinkish hue.

I remember allyvimar remarking that she had 6 adults in a 55gallon tank and then after adding an additional one a mated pair formed. That pair basically pushed the other angels into 1/3 of the tank and took the other 2/3 for themselves.

They are mostly all morphs. The two main species would be pterophyllum scalare and pterophyllum altum. Altums are supposedly rare to find in stores. The altums are the larger angelfish I believe. (scalare being 4" at adult size being common).

Were you planning to buy adult fish rather than raise them to adult size? Adult angelfish seem to be quite costly around here...except I found a very lucky deal on a 2.5" marble angelfish for $4.50. Other than that similar size fish seem to go for around $15 to $25 each.

 

[AdamsZoological]

Sounds like it should be a great tank. Be sure and post some pics when you get it done

 

[Allivymar]

Oooo..a black n white angel tank. Very cool! I've seen one before; I'll have to hunt down the post when I get back from work.

In the meantime, figure around 10g per angel to determine tank size. You might want to look at 5 in a 55g; this way theres some room for fish to run to when 2 decide breeding is in order (boy can they be aggressive buggers!). Taller tanks are better then longer for angels btw, they need the room for their fins. Keep the water current to a minimum; they hate fast water (they aren't built for it).

Buncha choices for the fish morphs. One of the black morphs, a marble, an albino blushing, a silver and a half black would look awesome, although some of those may be hard to find. Check out the different phenotypes here: http://www.angelsplus.com/galry-angel-a-g.htm . And there are no guarantees on size; they're all the same species and should all reach around 6 inches including fins, but theres no guarantee. My mated pair is a prime example. He's a huge male almost 4 inches in body length and another good 5 in tail length, she's a tiny lil slut...erm..female LOL about 2 1/2 body length and 2 fin length. They look like the high school football player and his cheerleading g/f LOL

I like the idea of the yoyos; I've 3 in my 55g with the angels (along with 3 clowns and a plec) and they are extremely amusing *grin* They don't mess with the angels, although they will follow them around from time to time looking fascinated LOL. I agree skunks wouldn't fit in color wise; they are also very aggressive.

 

[Christmasfish]

I can get a couple good size wild types at my lil lfs (they are 5-6 inches depending how measured) cheap (?8 ea). I love the stripes and them crazy eyes. He has no marbles but does have a humongous ?pearlscale?($16) and a bunch of super fancy tails black lace (just look plain jet black to me) at about (not cheap 12)3 inches.
He doesn't carry many loaches very often..so it'll be a search.

How many angels as opposed to dithers will have to change if they are all phenotypes as a I feared ~sigh!~ Sounds like another custom tank is in order for them after they out grow a 55 size. I will prolly go slow and get the tank first. I dont want less than 10 total angels so there is a hundred gallons right there.
Now for dither fish...I would love penguin tetras but they are some fair sized ones and I couldn't keep a big enough group. I want a small dither cloud of fish big enough not to be lunch with he black/white/silver thing going.Mine will all be adult size by then anyway..pitas.
Gotta recheck yo-yos and loaches..think a trip to LOL is in order..^_^

 

[Christmasfish]

PS there will be another Black and white tank on same floor with black ghost and snack ..I mean tankmates.

 

[BrianNY]

That does sound like a cool tank. Keeping with your black and white scheme, how about black skirt tetras. I've got a few in with my 3 black veilteils and it's proved to be a good mix.

 

[Christmasfish]

I was thinking of skirted tetras too..I was wondering if they are "angel" shaped for territory issues with 10 angels. i know angels can be aggressive but I am use to gourami that can be fine for a long time then BANG.."hey buddy!..I don't klike the way you twitched your fin >: ( Grr-rawr! Leave or DIE"

Are they not the same size as penguinfish? (3in)
I wish I could get dahli loaches. Mooses are marbled .
Trouble is many loaches yellow out after they are past juvenile stage.
I thought of platys..but I only want a FEW platy ...not legions! Darn fecund things!
My two skunks are very white/silver toneed in body. But the aggressive nature is a possible issue. They are pretty mean to other bottom dwellers. But are they really up to trying to harrass a same size or larger cichlid in sheeps clothing?

 

[BrianNY]

Well, I've had my black skirts in a 55g for 2 years and they topped out at around 2 and 1/2 inches. The angels only have territory issues with each other, and they couldn't catch the tetras if they tried. *LOL*

It's mad for a fairly peaceful tank, but who knows what any fish really thinks

 

[Christmasfish]

Hmmm, velly intelesting ....
well then I can erase the line through them. They could look very nice zipping around in the same colors

 

[Christmasfish]

marble hatchets?6-8
black and white skirts4-5 ea
penguinfish 4-5
the angels 10
a couple sids 3-4 and a few just right cories like spotteds?3...hmmm
there is that balck and white striped pleco...heh I think they get big enough to empty the tank..?

Ah I wish I could add an african dwarf zebrafish too! I know now it would be labeled a cichlid! I know they are like a 5 inch fish and squabbly but that is all I remember. And they might eat the sids since they are botton lurkers. If my memory serves. Wonder what they call em now? They may be extinct now...^_^ my grandpas friend has some of those. And blue zebrafish too..but one kinds was mostly silver and black with a color rim.

most the ones I realy think of by "look" are are actually marine fish. I aint going there! No-nope-no!...

 

[patryuji]

I have yet to see my skunk loaches do anything but run from the angel I have. My skunks are still young and only 2" long right now though. The skunks mostly just harass eachother but occassionally they will act aggressive towards my spotted cories. With the loach "blades" I don't know if too many fish will try to eat them (if they do it might be quite messy).

If you don't have yo-yo loaches down there just take a trip up north. I have seen a store in Kent with many youngsters going for $4.99 each. Fairly clean store with nice display tanks. All the other stores around here with yo-yos either price them from $10 and up or are somewhat scummy stores in general appearance.

 

[Christmasfish]

I am thinking the if the zebra is a lake malwai(?) cichlid i may cross it out. So far I can get a lot of similar pH fish.

I usually judge a store by how many different marked as stock loaches are alive and what the coloration of the tetras is. It the tetras look like living glowing jewels, the parameters must be good no matter how mucky the tank looks. Also by how many fish are genrally kept in one tank. I am suspicious of a "display" tank full of dead stuff. Or tanks listing like 12 species for a 15 gallon.
Angels being cichlids will chase things now and then anyway. I want something that isn't aggressive but not a shy violet to faded away because it was harrassed. So far my gentlest and shyest fish is my predator/bottom feeder the Black Ghost. Most are right up front at lunch types.

 

[Allivymar]

*giggles*

Then angels are for you. My guys literally line up when we go near the tank; one of em actually wags his tail LOL you can hear them thinking "food? food? food?"; they even do it when the cat peers in the tank LOL

 

[Christmasfish]

Maybe it is not "food" but like the Find Nemo seagulls..."mine?..Mine?!Mine?! Mine! Mine!" My cat peers at no tanks and more..she watches the 40 from the couch like cat TV. ^_^ but not in reach.

Angels and tetras for sure. I think the marble hatchets for sure. I wonder if the skirted tetras come marbled?