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Old 04-18-2008, 04:16 PM   #1
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Pair of Rams Tank Size and Spare 10 Gallon

I was considering a pair of German Rams. What is the minimum tank size for a pair of these? I would guess 20 gallons, but I wanted your input.

Also, what do I do with a 10 gallon I have spare? Betta is an option, but I'd like other suggestions. Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:53 PM   #2
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A 10 gallon is a perfect size for shellies, or a planted shrimp colony.
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:49 AM   #3
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There are some small gouarami species that would work. Killies would work. There are many other betta species besides splendens that would work. Do a little reading and you will find there are lots of choices.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:43 PM   #4
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10 gallons is the minimum necessary for a pair of rams. I wouldn't put many dither fish in there though. Other tankmates might include a couple of ottos and a small group of tetras.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:57 PM   #5
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I would never put a full grown pair of GBR in a 10 gallon tank, after keeping them I know how... active the male is with the female and she really needs a tank bigger than 20 inches to run and hide away from him in most cases.

In a 10 gallon you could do some of the apistogramma species, a personal favorite of mine is viejita and tirfasciata.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:14 PM   #6
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A 10 gallon tank is PERFECTLY fine for a pair of rams. I would know as I have often got them to breed in a 10 gallon tank and obviously they aren't going to spawn if they are stressed. It is the perfect size setup for a breeding tank.

It's funny what you say......a true "pair" of rams will get along just fine and the female wouldn't need to hide from the male. In all of my pairs in 10 gallon tanks I have never had a problem with aggression. Yes, apistos will do fine in a 10 gallon tank as well but the males are MUCH more aggressive during breeding than a ram would be. If you have a pair of rams and then one other oddball ram or more in the tank, the story would be different however. Male apistos are well known for harassing the female sometimes to the point of death to try to spawn. If fry are successfully reared by the female, more times than not she will turn her aggression on the male....once again unlike rams who share in the guarding and rearing of the eggs/fry.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:20 PM   #7
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I still wouldn't think of it. My male at his death was 3 inches and my female 2.5 and I did try breeding them in a 10 gallon. Upon which he tore her up badly so I moved them back up to my community 38 and they bred just fine.

And actually, in my experience apistos are not near as aggressive as rams while breeding. My male apisto does nothing to the female and the female does nothing to the male except not allow him near the batch of fry. There is far less aggression between the two apistos than I observed between by GBR pair.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:39 PM   #8
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Sounds like you didn't have a pair of rams then, especially if you didn't get them to spawn. They are one of the easiest fish to spawn so if they didn't more likely than not the female had no interest in THAT male. She may have previously partnered and not taken and new mate which is fairly common with GBR's. The only "aggression" that I've seen between proven pairs of my rams is when the parent that is over the clutch of eggs goes and nips at the tail of the other parent letting it's partner know to swap spots guarding. Sure there can be aggression between pairs or even two on one situations where a pair goes after another fish but aggression between partners of a pair is hardly seen. That's why I say you probably didn't have a pair. Just because there is a male and a female doesn't mean that you have a "pair" so to speak.

If you haven't noticed aggression in apistos there must be something in your water sedating them. My trifas, viejita CF2's and triple red males ALL would chase after the females and harass them. I read books that all said the males harass the females until she is ready to breed. Even the guys at the LFS suggested putting some fake floating plants in the tank in order for the males to trap the females. Haven't you seen the males go right up to the females and do the "tail wag" as I like to call it? Then after that he will usually chase her in and out of several makeshift caves before calming down.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:17 AM   #9
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I don't think you read what I said, I said they did breed. The only reason none of the fry made it was because I had no intention of raising them seperatly in another tank and the serpae tetras in the community were fast enough to eat the fry, they'd pretty much act as a pack of wolves when going for the fry, I figured on survival of the fittest.

And yes, I think I know what I am seeing in my own tank, my male is in no way aggressive towards the female, I have apisto viejita and if anything the female is more aggressive. Even before they were breeding there was no aggression from him and the only aggression from the female was keeping him and other fish away from her pit. When they bred the only thing I witnessed was the female pretty much shoving him (he was willing but she wanted it done right then! not in 15 seconds) so unless he did that in the confnes of her pit/cave, there was no tail-wagging.

And I have been talking with a ram breeder (she used to be specifically rams) and she recomends nothing smaller than a 15 gallon for breeding rams because she has observed agression from he male towards he female when she either isn't ready for breeding and even when they are ready for breeding she'll have a male that seems to just beat the female when in too small of a tank so she moved up to 20 gallons for breeding and is using her 10s for raising fry. Of course, now she breeds borelli because after so long GBR and BR got repetetive.

I have to say, each fish is different. Some fish are aggressive, some of that same species aren't, maybe the local supply just isn't too good in the way of aggression for GBR.

However, I have to ask, what books do you have? I could only find 1 book that had a profile on A. viejita and that was an outdated library book (my LFS has a really great selection on books on plants and SW but barely any on freshwater fish) that was vague on everything, it told me they needed 5.0-6.0 ph (mine are spawning in 7.2), that they don't breed for a year (I've had mine for 3 months now and they were tiny things when I got them) and other useless information.
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