pH drop, help me understand why???

[Convict2161]

Ok I've done my water changes most of you know I'm no stranger to water changes. I wasn't do for one but had a few buddy's over the house and of course... They saw the 2 dead fish after admiring my tank for awhile (man I felt dumb)

Anyway, I said to myself something must be going on BUT all the fry are fine and none have died and all fish appear hungry when walking by the tank so.... With that I tested the water everything was in check but pH, I've NEVER EVER had a pH issue since day 1. Tap pH is fine, I use crushed coral in a media bag in my AC 110. I also use buffer(Malawi) anywhoo.... I called a buddy who works at a LFS he knows everything you'll ever need to know about African Cichlid's. He told me to perform 10-20% water changes and dose the buffer at less then half the recommended, then perform another water change and dose slightly more and slowly bring the pH up over the next few days and test everyday and just monitor the fish. I trust him. Question I have is why does it happen? Why did my pH go from a steady 8.2 all the time every time to 7.0-6.8? Is that even possible? That's such a drastic drop off no? I couldn't get into this all with my buddy because he was driving to Michigan to visit friends.

So I'd like to know what could have caused this.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Dino

 

[Malawi MaD]

Hi Convict

If it was me i wouldn't be adding the salts (not just yet), id be monitoring the water for the next few days, simple because If you do go ahead and slightly buffer the water as your buddy says (which you already know) it could fluctuate the PH more and it could be up/down/up/down etc... With it dropping like that you dont want to be trying to raise it from a non stable PH, as a fluctuating PH is a lot worse than a lower but stable PH. That is a drastic drop, Im surprised you have only lost 2 fish with such a considerate change. Do all the others seem ok? What substrate are you using?I know that Gasses can build up in sand substrates which then, after a certain amount of time suddenly release into the tank and this can cause changes in the PH. Drops in pH are always a risk when you rely on shell, rocks or substrate to buffer but with you using the salts im surprised its changed. I know with the coral sand for instance it will take time for the calcium carbonate its composed of to dissolve into the water. Because this takes time, it can't always keep up with changes in the water. If for example you do a water change with softer water it may take a day or two for the hardness and in turn the pH to get back up to desired levels.Again though, with you using the salts it shouldn't fluctuate and if it does it would be very minimal. This is quite confusing , just get the PH stable that's the main thing, If it keeps dropping do as your buddy said, keep the water changes up and then begin to buffer gradually.

 

[Convict2161]

Thanks for all your input. First here's my tank.



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Its a 75 gallon with a fluval fx5 and a AC 110. Substrate is a mix of Cichlid sand and natural gravel. Yeah losing only 2 fish kind of shocked me also... The fry are all doing well and the rest of the fish appear fine. Eating and swimming just like they've always. Not really sure why it dropped. I'll monitor the water for the next few days and keep the water changes at 10-20%.

I also just replaced the crushed coral I use in the AC 110 with fresh crushed coral to see of that helps. I haven't used the buffer yet but did the water change.

 

[Malawi MaD]

Nice tank, That's the strange thing too all the fish look healthy and active. I'm not sure either, you have checked everything that should be checked. Ok, just keep monitoring the water stats and then go from there. If there's no drastic change over night or the next 2 days id go back to your usual routine. You 100% sure you didn't do anything different on the last water change? Not even the slightest thing? Plus what are the rest of your water parameters? KH/GH to?

Hopefully every things ok for you now man and no more losses.

 

[Convict2161]

Nice tank, That's the strange thing too all the fish look healthy and active. I'm not sure either, you have checked everything that should be checked. Ok, just keep monitoring the water stats and then go from there. If there's no drastic change over night or the next 2 days id go back to your usual routine. Not done anything different on the last water change you did? Not even the slightest thing? Plus what are the rest of your water parameters? KH/GH to?

Nothing done different at all, not one bit. Honestly I've never checked KH/GH didn't know it was needed. I test Phosphates on a occasion, then the norm NitrAtes, Ammonia, Nitrites, pH, and monitor temp with a digital system. Temp is steady at 77.5. I have a Koralia 750 to help move the water around and hit any dead spots so the filters can pick up the debris.

So.... Nothing has changed in my routine at all. I even test tap water before doing a water change, it's part of my OCD.

Thanks for your help and advice BTW... Not sure if I thanked you.

Oh and thanks! I've worked very very hard on my tank. After the columnaris outbreak I had a few months ago when I lost 15 fish!! I re scaped the tank.

 

[Autumnsky]

Don't know if it could be the water source. Our city water comes from different sources through the year, when one lake might get to a lower level or from too much water like a spring snow melt causing over flow level, it can be switched to a different holding location or diverted to a new reservoir for storage for later.

You can call your water company and ask them if they know if there have been any changes on their end.

 

[Convict2161]

Don't know if it could be the water source. Our city water comes from different sources through the year, when one lake might get to a lower level or from too much water like a spring snow melt causing over flow level, it can be switched to a different holding location or diverted to a new reservoir for storage for later.

You can call your water company and ask them if they know if there have been any changes on their end.

Yeah I'm in the loop on that end being the fire chief in my town and on the county's Hazardous Materials Team. No water issues or main breaks, nothing has changed at all. I would have gotten notified if a water change or diversion has been implemented.

 

[Autumnsky]

Too bad it wasn't that easy!

 

[Convict2161]

Too bad it wasn't that easy!

lol I wish it was! Believe me I do... I'll get a handle on it. I'm going to get a new high range ph test tomorrow and start there.

 

[Jess1ca]

Hmmm, its a mystery! Good luck

 

[Convict2161]

Hmmm, its a mystery! Good luck

One that will be solved... Trust me.

 

[CraigMac]

This is probably a stupid question, but with the other fish looking and doing great I have to ask.......

Could it possibly be a faulty test and the 2 fish died from something else? How old and what kind of test kit are you using? Maybe take a sample into your LFS and see if their test matches yours?

 

[mfdrookie516]

did you end up putting lids on the tank?

 

[Convict2161]

did you end up putting lids on the tank?

Topless tank, just the wooden canopy above. Bought a new pH test kit and there ya go!! 8.0 and tested 3 times. Tested with my other kit and the color wasn't even on the chart. It looked like a NitrAte test. It was like a very very light orange, so I'm gonna go ahead and say the kit was bad.

 

[Malawi MaD]

Glad your found out what the problem was. That's why all your fish are still going strong, stupid test kits hey!!

 

[Autumnsky]

Yay, that was a great call!!!

Things can be so complicated in life, and it is nice when it turns out to be simple (and you have great advice here)!!!!!

 

[Jess1ca]

Topless tank, just the wooden canopy above. Bought a new pH test kit and there ya go!! 8.0 and tested 3 times. Tested with my other kit and the color wasn't even on the chart. It looked like a NitrAte test. It was like a very very light orange, so I'm gonna go ahead and say the kit was bad.

Awesome! Mystery solved thought u just got a new kit not too long ago when u were having nitrate issues?!

 

[Convict2161]

Awesome! Mystery solved thought u just got a new kit not too long ago when u were having nitrate issues?!

Yup! Your 100% correct. I'll be making a phone call to API tomorrow to complain. This is ridiculous.

 

[CraigMac]

Yup! Your 100% correct. I'll be making a phone call to API tomorrow to complain. This is ridiculous.

Glad the problem wasn't a water quality problem! Now that brings up another question......any idea as to why the 2 fish died? We're they old? Signs of aggression and injuries? Signs of illness?

 

[Convict2161]

Glad the problem wasn't a water quality problem! Now that brings up another question......any idea as to why the 2 fish died? We're they old? Signs of aggression and injuries? Signs of illness?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe they too close to the fry and were attacked and stressed for being in the wrong place? I mean that's the only thing I can come up with. They weren't old and show no signs of illness. I do know they were chased around pretty good because they went near the area where all the yellow labs fry are. Maybe they just couldn't take it? Maybe they were the weaker ones in the tank? It's overstocked and maybe the pecking order is still being established?

Just some thoughts.

BTW... Tested again tonight. 8.0