Ram Numbers? - Aquarium Advice

darkmule27 · 09-03-2009, 11:06 PM

I have an Amazon-ish "biotope" that I feel needs something more. I've decided I want to attempt to get back into cichlids after years of convicts, but still keep the community tank. I have 2 great LFS stores near me that I'm visiting Saturday. One has an UNREAL selection of rams. I'm talking healthy, active, steroid-free rams!
I've read everything I can find on them and feel I can definitely care for them properly. The LFS I'll be getting them from has a wonderful collection of slate and other rock so I'll pick up a few pieces to make some cichlid caves. The other residents are 3 otos, 1 ghost shrimp, a bunch of snails, and 5 serpae tetras (and a temporary ABN who will be going to his real home with my mom this weekend).

I have a question that I can't find an answer for though...how many should/could I get for a 10 gallon? 1 or 2? What gender(s)? If I have to get a male and a female, will I have a baby explosion? I'm not really interested in a breeding pair if I can avoid it.
Thanks in advance!

mfdrookie516 · 09-03-2009, 11:11 PM

I would think that even a single ram would be too big for a 10g... I may be wrong though. PM dizzcat, she has rams, breeds rams, knows all about rams.

darkmule27 · 09-03-2009, 11:29 PM

I've read and heard a lot of things saying that a 10g is fine for a pair? If they're wrong, then I'll definitely rethink it!

mcgrady7761 · 09-03-2009, 11:32 PM

yea a breeding pair is fine i heard. but that is if u dont want them to live comfortably. i would go with a school of neons if i were you.

bs6749 · 09-03-2009, 11:48 PM

I keep my breeding pairs of rams in 10g tanks successfully and I know that many other breeders do the same. You are pretty much going to be limited to 2 rams in that tank. Always keep them in sexed pairs to avoid aggression issues. Also, rams aren't cave spawners so they will most likely stay out of any caves you try to build them. This is one reason they were removed from the genus Apistogramma, which they formerly belonged to as Apistogramma ramirezi. They prefer to lay eggs on flat surfaces and will dig a pit for the eggs to be laid in. They often transfer the hatched out fry to a secondary pit by way of mouth and spit them out and care for them. Apistos on the other hand like to spawn on roofs of caves and the female guards the eggs. Rams on the other hand take turns guarding and caring for the eggs and fry.

darkmule27 · 09-03-2009, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the info! I'm not really interested in a breeding pair...would one be okay or would a pair be a whole lot better?

bs6749 · 09-03-2009, 11:55 PM

I'd go with a male and a female just because you would be able to see much more cool behavior than you would with a solitary ram. Don't be worried about being overrun with babies. Rams are typically bad parents unless they are closely related to wild blood. Most breeders artificially raise ram fry and the good parenting skills typical of wild rams have been lost on the domesticated ones. They will most likely eat the eggs and the fry will starve if you don't feed them properly. You could alway put a small school of 4-5 tetras into the tank if they do spawn to eat the fry.

darkmule27 · 09-04-2009, 12:03 AM

There's already a small school of tetras in there, haha. Looks like even more reading for me before I can really decide.

DizzCat · 09-04-2009, 04:42 PM

If you go with Rams, I would advise you to rehome the serpae tetras because they are notorious fin nippers, right up there with Tiger Barbs. I put a small group in with my Rams in a 20 gallon and within minutes they started picking on my big 4.5" male Bolivian Ram!

Bs is right, Rams ignore caves. If there is a "bridge" from a chunk of driftwood they may hang out under it, but mine have never used any cave I ever set up. What they do need is a lot of plants. Fake or real. That is where mine hang out, under the big leaves of my Amazon swords. They also dig their fry pits in the roots of the plants.

Ram fry are tiny, smaller than a gnat! If the parents are not good caretakers and you do not feed the fry, they will not survive. I am lucky, my male is the best parent I have ever seen. I have always suspected he is either a wild caught or close to one. He is bigger than any male I have seen and his fins are longer and more colorful too. Normal Bolivian Ram males will get up to around 3.5", but mine is closer to 5".

In my profile is pictures of my community tank that is set up to the Rams needs if you want an idea. This picture is my 20 gallon that I am growing out my juveniles. I added some real and fake plants last weekend to make them more comfortable.

darkmule27 · 09-04-2009, 07:08 PM

I know about the serpae tetras' reputation, but mine haven't bothered anything (bigger or smaller than them) or each other; if I felt they would be a problem, I wouldn't have even considered adding more fish. They're certainly a YMMV fish though!

Thanks for the pic, that helps a TON! I think I'm going to take a look at their stock tomorrow and, if I get any, closely monitor them and return the rams if any problems arise.