Rams and Apistos

[petunia100]

I have a 55 gallon that currently has

1 dwarf blue gourami
2 buenos aries tetras
3 lemon tetras
5 pristnella tetras
6 neon tetras (am wanting to increase this to about nine)
3 german blue rams (2 male 1 female)
3 julii cories
4 panda cories
3 pygmy cories

I was wanting to eventually find a new home for the gourami and buenos aries tetras. And once I did I was wanting to get at least 2 more female blue rams.

I was wanting to add a pair or two of apistos, but my lfs said that he had not had good experiences mixing apistos and rams, that the apistos bullied the rams but the biggest tank he had was a 29 gallon. Has anyone here hand problems or successes mixing apistos and rams? If so is there a particular apisto that I should look for or avoid? I don't know how many pairs I could put in a 55 gallon maybe 2 pairs of rams is too much already? The tank is fairly heavily planted with lots of hiding places.

Also I have seen what is called "golden rams" at the lfs, is this just a color variation? Will they pair with my blue rams? The female and one of the males have paired up and keep chasing the other male away from their little hideaway.

I'm not terribly interested in breeding and I think my tetras would eat pretty much any eggs, but I would like to spread the stress on the females out so I am looking to get more pretty soon.

The tank has been set up for six months and has had no major problems.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jchillin]

I won't be able to give you a definitive yes or no regarding mixing the rams and apisto's but from what I have seen and heard, they aren't the best of tankmates.

The Gold variant that they have may be a distant cousin of the German Blue or could in fact be a Bolivian. If they are Bolivians, you should see distinct black stripes along the face (similar to the German Blue) and red highlights in the dorsal fins. Unlike the Bolivian, the Gold and German Blues often spawn together (thus weakening the gene pool, but that's another topic). Increasing your German Blue Ram stock is a far better idea. FWIW, I have German Blues and Bolivians (juvies) in my 75 gal., no issues as yet.

 

[sherry]

you can always get a definative answer on what pairs with what on www.apistogramma.com. those guys have essentially tried it all

 

[Guest]

I have 3 german blue rams in a 55gal tank with 6 pairs of apistogramma

3 x Blue rams
1p Apisto cocakto full red
1pApisto Panduro + 1f
2p Apisto Nijsseni
1p Apisto Aggassie red tail
1p Aoisto Borelli

The rams stay more to the top area of the plants. The Apisto's stay at the bottom of the tank. They both need a planted tank. Mid to heavly. The rule is with Apisto's each pair need at least a 10gal of space on the bottom to make it's terrtory.

 

[Guest]

Here's my male ram going on 6months old
Here's my cockto apisto pair and panduro all in the same tank.

 

[Guest]

There home

[/img]

 

[sherry]

weasel.. the cacatoides.. what color are their pectoral fins?

 

[BrianNY]

First, rams are apistos. Apistogramma is the genus and Ramerizi is the species. There are many species in the genus Apistogramma. Depending upon which you are referring will determine the answer.

 

[Jchillin]

You are definitely correct there Brian. What has happened over time (and I cannot speak for everyone) is folks have mentally separated the exotic SA cichlids away from the Rams. When folks say apistos, they are definitely not referring to Rams. It may need to be discontinued as I know I'm guilty of doing this.

 

[petunia100]

There are photos of my rams in my gallery, check them out they are doing really well. The photo of my tank is in there also, however, I have added quite a few more plants since that photo was taken. Aren't ramerizi members of the Microgeophagus genus? Making them more closely related to bolivians than members of the genus Apistogramma? I was thinking about adding a pair of Apistogramma agassizii "Double red" and/or Apistogramma nijsseni and/or Apistogramma trifasciata (probably just two of these or two pairs of one). That would give me two pairs of apistos and two pairs of M. ramirezi, and an assortment of tetras. I would probably just add a pair at a time, I don't want to dump a bunch of pairs in there all at once. Does this sound okay?

 

[petunia100]

Thanks for the link Sherry, I've been checking it out. It seems like the agassizii are one of the most agressive to blue rams and A. borellis is one of the least agressive of the apistos. I'll have to keep an eye on what my lfs has.

 

[Guest]

Yes I know I have two male cockao full reds. Also that sounds good on the number of Apisto's. I hve a fry of Cockato orange Flash right now In a 10g. grow out tank. There just free swimming today. I'm going to keep two of the females for my cockato ful red males.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Gold and blue rams are the same species; the golds are just a color variant. This means they'll pair off and breed with one another.

 

[Guest]

Yea rams and apisto's are from South American but that where the semalairertie ends. The Ram and the Apisto are also dwarfs but again thats where it ends. I thank alot of people sparate the two from SA as to keep the trouble down with We'll he said she said SA cichlids where the same.
When there far from the same. The ram is a lot harder to get adjusted to a tank and new water primes. Where as the apisto can adjust to just about any water primes with easy. The female of the ram spices is more likely to dyi from a new water prime. Then the male is. I beleave alot of us { I'm one myself } Have come to calling the Apistogramma as it's own spices. Different then a SA dwarf cichlid from whitch is.

 

[Jchillin]

Let's just clear this up shall we?

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apistogramma

http://www2.nrm.se/ve/pisces/acara/cichphyl.shtml

Up until a few years ago, the German Blue Ram was known as Apistogramma Ramirezi until the change to "Mikrogeophagus".

We can let the naming conventions provide more confusion if we want.

 

[Guest]

yes the Ram was in the apistogramma group. Yes it's a dwarf, I was just saying that as far as the Ram and the Apisto being the same there not. Must people beleave that just because there South American Dwarfs that all there care and keep will fall the same.
IMO the Apistogramma has to be one of the easest to care for and to keep the water primes at a level that is great for them. Where as the Ram has to be the total oppost of that. The Ram has to IMO one of the hardest to adjust to new water prime.
I read more post on { The German Blue Ram } dying from aday to 2 weeks after being put in a new tank. Then 90 % of all other SADC combained. Mostly the female of the spices. I have a good friend whos a menber of the forum and she has lost I know of 4 to 5 female GBR's with in the last month.
I've had a male GBR for going on 6 months but the same thing with me I lose the female before any other fish. No matter how you adjust the GBR to the water it's always the hardest to adjust. I can't say that about the Apistogramma { of today } The Apisto happens to be the easest IMO to adjust to new water primes.
I can take my Nijsseni trio pair and move them from tap water with PH-6.5,GH 250,KH 275 and put them in RO/Distiled PH 5.6 to5.9,GH-0-, KH-0- and never have a single problum. You take a GBR and try that and your going to have a dead fish with in 3 days.

Now I'm not saying that is the case with every type of Ram just the GBR sems to me to be hardest to adjust to a tank for some reason. Now ALL THIS I'VE SAID IS MY OPAION NOT FACT BY NO MEANS{ BUT ASK AROUND AND SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE HAD THIS HAPPEN TO THEM AND YOU'LL SEE 90 % OF THEM WILL SAY ME! }

 

[LindaC]

I have a 29 gallon planted tank that houses 1 male adult Blue Ram, 2 juvenille female Wild Blue Rams along with a pair of Apistogramma agassizii - Red Tails and they get along just fine, all of them! I also have 2 Lemon Tetras, 2 Harlequin Rasboras, 2 Ottos and 1 SEA. I have not had one problem with either species Ram or Apisto getting along with one another. My Apisto's ususally stay at the bottom of the tank, while the Rams are pretty much everywhere. My adult male Ram is more intent on chasing the female wild Rams around then he is about the Apistos.

Both of these species have given me hours of enjoyment, the male Apisto eats right out of my hand, so does the male Ram, they are always right out there to greet me when I turn on the tank lights or when I come home from work at the end of the day. I don't think you'll have any problems adding a pair of Apistogrammas to your tank. I have a pretty reliable source as far as Apistos go and he never would have sold them to me if he thought they wouldn't get along with the Blue Rams.

Good luck!
Linda

 

[Jchillin]

Weasel...take a look around this site and you will probably see my name associated with every German Blue Ram thread in existence. If no one agrees that the GBR is a difficult fish to keep, I certainly will.

The problem? Pretty fish, pretty colors and an amazing breeding frenzy to bring these fish to market. The fact is, there are more imported GBR's, mostly from Asia, the stress of injected hormones and possibly poor shipping techniques are well documented.

BTW, no need to shout, no one was disagreeing with your observations.

 

[Guest]

Sorry didn't know I was shoutting. LOL sorry if come off that way. I will be the frist to tell you the same thing you said. The import of this spices of Apisto is overly hurryed to met the market on the them. It's without a single thought one of the hardest to get to stay in a single spices tank.
I'm just to blame as the big dealers of them. I havn't even got mine in stock and have around 150 orders for them already. Now the other thing is the Bolvine ram is another of the rams as we all know. But the damaned on them ain't as larges as the GBR and the Bolvine Ram will take to almost any water primes.
Why is that? I thank it has to do with the fact that it's not a well hunted after fish.
I have a thought as well. Why is it the wild cought of the GBR want take to a store bought. I have alway read and hear that the store bought would take o a wild ram before another sore bought. Any thoughts on that anyone?

 

[Fruitbat]

Correct me if I'm wrong....but weren't the Rams placed into the genus Microgeophagus??

-Joe