Red Zebra Hiding

[PazMan]

Hi all.

First post. Nice forums.

I recently setup a 25 gallon chiclid tank. I used cycle to start with and bought a testing kit and all level are zero right now except for Nitrates which have come down to about 20ppm. I'm not sure if this will ever get to zero.

There are 2 jonnis, 1 johanni, 1 red zebra, and a pleco. All were doing pretty good. I had to take back an earlier johanni I had because it was ultra aggressive and killed a strawberry we had just bought. Like I said all were doing good, only a few chases here and there. I bought a fairly large branch like ornament for the middle of the tank to add more character. It seems once I did that the existing johanni started after the red zebra. The zebra is now inside of one of the smaller hiding places and is very skittish. He won't even come out at feeding time. The johanni get in chases with the pair of jonnis every once in a while but nothing too serious.

Well I'm worried about the zebra now. The zebra was in with the first batch of fish and is about the same size as the johanni. He's obviously just not as aggressive.

Well any advice. Should I wait it out? Should I bring back my second johanni. Should I bring back the zebra?

Thanks for the help.

Pazman

 

[tetrin]

welcome to AA pazman, and i'm sorry to bring bad news.
none of the fish that you have currently (though i didn't recognize the jonni) are suited for a 25g.
the johanni (a melanochromis sp.) has already claimed the tank and won't rest till all the other fish are subjugated. the zebra would slowly be starved or chased to death.

the option of waiting it out is not valid since it'll result in death(s). even the poor pleco may not be spared.

you have to understand that these fish are very territorial. once someone invades their territory, they'll not rest till the intuder is chased out of the territory. and if the tank is small, the intruder has no place to escape to.

i'd suggest you rethink your tank size.

 

[PazMan]

Really?

I've never heard this before. About tank size I mean. I know the five I have is fully stocked but they are all in their infancy stage, the smallest being the pleco. None of the chiclids have even attempted to bother him. I know as they grow I will need to upgrade but doesn't the inches per gallon equation work here? Or is the fact that they are aggressive make a larger tank size necessary. I have read several posts and seen several pics of this type of setup. The way you say it I really have no option. I told the people at the local fish store my setup and the did say I shouldn't add any more but didn't say I needed a larger tank. I know they want to sell fish but I went to school with the owner and have known him all my life. I trust your opinion and will act on it, especially about the zebra but what do you suggest I do about the zebra at this point.

Thanks a lot for your reply,

PazMan

 

[tetrin]

pazman, i know its disheartening, but your friend at the lfs keeps the fish in tanks with a high turnover rate. the fish there will be sold quickly. so they don't get a chance to establish their territories. also the lack of any decor helps in destroying the concept of territories. so aggression is kept to a minimum.

however, in your tank, they will be forced to stay for a significantly longer period of time than at the lfs. and the addition of the branch-like ornament simply sparked off another dispute over territories.

doesn't the inches per gallon equation work here?

in fact, it works the other way round for mbunas (but for tanks that are slightly larger in size). if you have too many victims for an aggressor, he tends to lose the victim in the crowd . but i doubt that'll be possible in a 25g tank, which is too small to over-crowd.

and please take other opinions, specially of people who actually keep these cichlids, before you act. me, i'm a bookworm and a novice just like you. its just that i've read some articles about them and formed some sort of judgement (which might very well be flawed ).

i'm sorry if i came accross too strongly with my opinions.

 

[PazMan]

OK, so this is what I just did. I brought the johanni back to the lfs. Second one I've brought back btw. (What I didn't say is that the first Johanni killed a strawberry. I called my friend at the store and he said he must be ultra-aggressive so he gave me a replacement for the johanni and also replaced the strawberry with two pindanis(I called these Jonnis in previous post ). - No strawberries left in stock.

Anyway I replaced the johanni with a smallish chameleo. I placed the zebra back in(had taken out for safety) and put in the chameleo. The Zebra seems fine now however all are testing the chameleo for space now. Not in a troubling manner just some quick chases.

I know the tank is small and I'll try to work on that but I guess I'll see how it goes.

Any advise still welcome and appreciate for this noob. When the strawberry died I was very shocked and want to keep that from happening again.

Thanks,

PazMan

 

[tetrin]

so you have now -
1 pseudotropheus zebra (red zebra)
2 pseudotropheus socolofi's (pindani)
chameleo (can't id)

this might turn out to be a great growout tank. but do keep an eye out for aggression from the zebra. also keep in mind that you have all mbunas. so please do not feed any animal-protein-based foods (bloodworms, tubifex etc.).

good luck with the tank.

 

[PazMan]

Thanks a lot for the comments.

I now have the following..

1 pseudotropheus zebra (red zebra)
2 pseudotropheus socolofi's (pindani)
1 Pseudotropheus crabro (chameleo)
1 plecostomus (Unsure of variety) (He probably doesn't belong)

The zebra put on some good chases and ran the crabro ragged last night but all have seemed to settle in now and are doing good. I will keep an eye out.

Thanks again,

PazMan

 

[tetrin]

ahh, i forgot about crabos pulling the chameleon act .
yeah keep an eye on them. i reiterate that none of these fish are suitable for a longterm stay in a 25g. but do give it a try till things get completely out of hand...

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I have to agree with Tetrin on this, the 25 gal tank is not sufficient. When dealing with Africans, you do not apply the 1 inch per gal guideline. These fish need plenty of swimming space and loads of hiding places. To achieve this, you need a large tank. And when I say large, 55 gal +. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 55 gal for Africans. It is best to slightly overstock for these fish. This will cut down on aggression, as Tetrin has already mentioned. But when you are dealing with a small tank, you can't really overcrowd. The Socolofi's are ok at the moment in the 25 gal tank, but will definately need an upgrade, the same is true for the Zebra. I have never had a crabro so I can't comment on their behavior. You won't have any problems with the pleco in regards to aggression. But you may have issues with the tank size. The type of pleco is important in determining if it is suitable for your tank size. Most lfs carry the Common Pleco (AKA Trinidad Pleco). They sell for about $5. The ones that you want to be looking for are the "dwarf" pleco's which run about $10 to $50 (depending on which one you buy and the availability). A good one for your tank size would be the Rubbermouth pleco or the Bristlenose pleco. They are slow growers and stay relatively small. If you have a Common pleco, he will get huge and will ultimately die in the tank. They are big waste producers, that's why you need the smaller ones.

This may be alot of info all at once, but so many people buy Africans and don't realize the tank requirements. I love these fish and have done plenty of research on them and when I hear about lfs employees saying that they are fine in a 25 gal tank, it makes me want to pull my hair out.

Also, are these the fish that you have?

Crabro: http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=314
Zebra: http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=510
Pleco: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=984