Sexing Bolivian Rams?

[chrism]

Hi all! I wonder if anyone can help me sex my rams... I've tried before and failed lol now they are a little older im trying again!

the blurry pics at the bottom, now i think that... well actually i dnt know what i think!

Ram 1

Is the largest. Has much brighter colouring, longer filaments, and the front two / three is it dorsal fins? :S (the ones at the top) are longer and blacker than the other fins. Seems to rule the tank.

Ram 2

is the smallest, has short extenstions, the front fins arent as black or longer than the other fins. seems to squabble a lot with ram 3, sometimes stands up to ram 1, but generally backs down. Ram 2 & 3 were lip locking quite a bit tonight, no damage done tho.

Ram 3

is the middle size, and well seems jst like a larger version of ram 2 :S



they all fight no-one loves each other! lol i havent even seen a fling!

So have i got all males? all females? or a mix?! I would really like a pair

In the 3 rams shot, the left one is ram 1, ram 2 is the middle one, and ram 3 is the right one...

Thanks for any help!

 

[chrism]

3 ram shot

 

[BASSNMAN]

One of my cichlid books states that the lip grabbing is a courting sign. It also says when you are trying to buy a pair, watch them to see if two particular ones chase or lock jaws or bump each other. Courting signs. I am going to the LFS tomorrow, probably to get 4. Hope to get at least one pair.

 

[chrism]

Good luck bassnman, well if that the case... they're all courting! Hopefully they will pair off eventually... they've been acting like this for a while now, does anyone know how long this courship takes? how long is a piece of string i guess...

 

[FawnN]

I've heard just the opposite of the lip grabbing thing. It is a sign of dominance. They are fighting over who gets to rule the tank.

The females are just as mean as the males when it comes to showing eachother who's boss.

OK Chrism, I'm going back on what I originally told you after further research on Bolivian Rams is this what I think your rams are.

I think the ram on the far left is a male and the other 2 are females.

The females are smaller and males are bigger and rounder. But if they are still pretty young it could be difficult to sex. How big are they?

 

[Rxblade123]

Are Bolivian Rams closely related to Blue Rams?

 

[FawnN]

Nope they are a different species.

There are German Blue Rams and Blue Rams ( Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) are the same. The only difference is, is that they are raised differently. GBR's are obviously raised in Germany and are tank raised, and the Blue Ram is caught in the wild.

And then there are Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus).

 

[chrism]

I would say (not being in front of my tank, but looking at a ruler! ) that the far left is about 3" nose to end of tail fin

i also thought lip locking was a way of determining dominace, they all have lip locked at some point! other behaviour i have noticed (and got excited about at the time) was the left one nudging the middle one in the side (so they are in a T position) and the left one kinda slapping "him" in the face with her tail fin, this went on for a bit then they both swam away!

Edit: 2" nose to end of tail...

 

[j3rseyBoy]

Thought I'd throw my two sense in here. I agree with FawnN as to which rams are male and female. In my experience, the easiest way to sex them when they are younger is behavior when paired. Now that I've had mine for about 6 months now, the distinctions are clear: the body of the male is larger and has a rounder profile, especially in the snout. He has longer filaments on the top and bottom of his tail and is unquestionably the prettier of the two. The female is less attractive overall with a less rounded body profile than the male and a slightly more elongated snout.

It took more than a few trips to the LFS before I ended up with a pair. I tried looking for pink bellies and shorter and lighter filaments, but the first two times, I ended up with two males fighting each other incessantly in my 20H. They divided the tank in two, and whenever one crossed the line, jaws locked and the fighting began. They even looked like one would stalk the other one just to fight. Locking jaws is certainly no sign of affection.

I think it was the third time that I finally got it right. Now I've got two rams that can actually occupy the same space and often hang out right next to each other. That's what finally convinced me that I had a pair.