Texas Cichlids being temperamental?

[LayzorBeams]

So i have 4 Texas cichlids, 1 4.5 inch male, and two females that are 2-2.5 inches. There is a tiny one that i simply couldn't find and therefore didn't remove when i got some new Texas specimens. He is pretty much irrelevant.

The females have the very obvious dark dorsal spot as well as a long body and rounded fins.


They are in a tank with a Syno and 2 Firemouths that i think are males, however my only reasoning is that they are territorial to each other. They each guard a side of the tank, and no physical harm has come to either of them.

There is lots of flat rocks and driftwood, ample areas to lay eggs.

So the larger of the females constantly circles around the large male, with her breeding colors in effect. The male seems to ignore her, even though she is obviously wanting to spawn. Is it possible is that he just isn't interested in spawning? Should i add in a smaller male that is still big enough to breed to induce competition and have another male for mating?

It really annoys me to see the beautiful male ignoring the female.... Why wont they breeeeeeed ??




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[HUKIT]

Maybe he plays for the other team and doesn't like chicks...

 

[LayzorBeams]

Lol... Well if it exists in our society maybe it does in theirs... Thats a goofy thought...

While that was entertaining, i wont be able to consider that advice


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[LayzorBeams]

Ive decided to give it 2 weeks, if the male wont breed by then i will replace him with a male Cygonattous (mine is Carpintis) of the same size and see if that works.

I just looked in on them, the female is solid black on the rear parts but no spawning behavior and no eggs, the male is still colored normal, ughh. Annoys me... Why cant they just be normal fish who would love to breed constantly... Oh well, such is life...


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[Freakgecko91]

Ive decided to give it 2 weeks, if the male wont breed by then i will replace him with a male Cygonattous (mine is Carpintis) of the same size and see if that works.

I just looked in on them, the female is solid black on the rear parts but no spawning behavior and no eggs, the male is still colored normal, ughh. Annoys me... Why cant they just be normal fish who would love to breed constantly... Oh well, such is life...


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Females are often known to lay eggs together in many cichlids species. It's not that far fetched of a thought

Why try a breed a mutt? That accomplishes one thing: breeding a hybrid that more than likely will resemble one of the parent species, thus muddying the gene pools of both species. Be patient. Try doing a cool water change and offering some live food. Also give it some time, they're still fairly small.


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[LayzorBeams]

Ok... Ummm...

First off, no. The females aren't breeding, as i can see. The one in breeding dress is actually quite vicious to the other, and the one who is not in breeding dress, by that description, isn't in breeding dress. Which means that they aren't breeding or attempting to breed. By attitude and color, the females don't appear to be breeding.

Also, i really don't like the fact that since an animal is a hybrid, it is frowned upon. All life is beautiful. I don't hate on you because you are 100% German, or 100% Chinese, or whatever. The whole hobby, in the end, is based off of people enjoyment of fish. Not how pure they are. People like me do it as an experience and a tiny tiny source of "income" which is actually not even money, its credit at the LFS. Most people who buy stuff there don't do it for purity, they buy it so they can have a pet, as probably half of the Texas, or Red Devil, are already hybrids. If they want pure fish they can find them elsewhere.

And of course i plan to do my part and say that these are, or aren't, hybridized. What they do from there is up to them. If it was me i would put a sign on that glass saying "locally raised Carpinte/Cygonattuas hybrids.) too bad it ain't my store. They are still, basically, a Texas.

So, even though it may or may not happen, i would just ask that you clarify that its your opinion. Don't act like its everybody's. Some people feel differently that you.

And i really don't mean offense here, but this is what i believe and i want to say my part.




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[LayzorBeams]

But anyways, thank you for the advice. I will try to add some cooler water.

Although it is about this size that they are normally starting to breed, and the female, which is smaller than the male by a couple inches, is obviously ready to breed. But maybe i will give it more time, i guess it depends on how it plays out.


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[RedDevil83]

Don't know if it helps but my temp was high when I had jaguar babies.

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[LayzorBeams]

Yeah I've read some weird stuff about temps, some suggest to raise by a bit and some suggest to lower. Ive raised it by a few, so now i will lower it...


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[Rivers2k]

Females are often known to lay eggs together in many cichlids species. It's not that far fetched of a thought

Why try a breed a mutt? That accomplishes one thing: breeding a hybrid that more than likely will resemble one of the parent species, thus muddying the gene pools of both species. Be patient. Try doing a cool water change and offering some live food. Also give it some time, they're still fairly small.


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Curious about your statement of cichlid females laying eggs together never heard that before where did you get that info? I know some fish have nesting sights but never heard of fish sharing a nest.

Unless he got them from a reliable source most likely already mutts. Most "red devils" and texas cichlids at the LFS are mixes. As he mentioned in his post people that are really looking for pure strains know where to get them. Most people are looking for a fish that looks good to them.

 

[Freakgecko91]

Again, read through my posts instead of a single bit and then jump on me people. Seriously.

Not once did I say YOUR fish. There are many examples of female angelfish laying eggs together. I've heard of keyholes doing it as well.

Second, it is YOUR problem what happens to them after they leave your home. Why not help to preserve these species for future generations, why continue to give them these I identified fish. I'm fully aware of what damage has been done to the entire amphilophus genus. But why continue that tread? Why breed just to breed? Why not be patient, find the right fish, and then put something back into the hobby that is worth while. Don't let this turn into another hybrid debate, because that's not what I am getting at. I'm getting at preserving our hobby, so that our future generations can enjoy these fish in the purest form possible, otherwise we're gonna lose a lot of cool species to hybridizing. Rant done, take it as you will.


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[HUKIT]

Curious about your statement of cichlid females laying eggs together never heard that before where did you get that info? I know some fish have nesting sights but never heard of fish sharing a nest.

I've had numerous species of females pair then lay and guard eggs without a male present. This isn't a rare occurrence at all...

 

[LayzorBeams]

Again, read through my posts instead of a single bit and then jump on me people. Seriously.

Not once did I say YOUR fish. There are many examples of female angelfish laying eggs together. I've heard of keyholes doing it as well.

Second, it is YOUR problem what happens to them after they leave your home. Why not help to preserve these species for future generations, why continue to give them these I identified fish. I'm fully aware of what damage has been done to the entire amphilophus genus. But why continue that tread? Why breed just to breed? Why not be patient, find the right fish, and then put something back into the hobby that is worth while. Don't let this turn into another hybrid debate, because that's not what I am getting at. I'm getting at preserving our hobby, so that our future generations can enjoy these fish in the purest form possible, otherwise we're gonna lose a lot of cool species to hybridizing. Rant done, take it as you will.


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This will be my last post on this thread about the hybrid debate, but seriously?

I mean, yes. Preservation of the species are important, and i wont argue with that. However, these are fish we have taken out of their natural habitat, at some point down the line, and are now in our little glass boxes. These fish, unless wild-caught or F-1, really aren't the same fish as there ancestors. They don't act the same. They may look the same, but in other aspects they aren't. So from just having them in our tanks we change them. So, in my opinion, when you go to the LFS you really shouldnt be bothered about seeing hybrids, as you cant really call them the same fish as the wild type anyways. IMO. If you want truly pure fish, they can be found elsewhere.

And i have done and plan to inform any buyers on the genetics of the fish as far back as i know them. Ive done it with every type of Guppy, every cichlid, etc. that I've bred before. After that i can no longer control what they do. But im in the hobby to have fun and enjoy, and if i cross two species that in most aspects are almost identical to have my fun, then so be it. Im sure that, as LFS fish, they are not truly one specie or the other anyways.

And also, the ones i have, as far as i can tell, are Carpinte. So, unless they have already been hybridized, they arent "mutts".

And i did read and take note of everything you said. Im just a bit ticked off as this is a touchy subject for me when it is brought up in such an unwarranted fashion.




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[HUKIT]

This will be my last post on this thread about the hybrid debate, but seriously?

I mean, yes. Preservation of the species are important, and i wont argue with that. However, these are fish we have taken out of their natural habitat, at some point down the line, and are now in our little glass boxes. These fish, unless wild-caught or F-1, really aren't the same fish as there ancestors. They don't act the same. They may look the same, but in other aspects they aren't. So from just having them in our tanks we change them. So, in my opinion, when you go to the LFS you really shouldnt be bothered about seeing hybrids, as you cant really call them the same fish as the wild type anyways. IMO. If you want truly pure fish, they can be found elsewhere.

And i have done and plan to inform any buyers on the genetics of the fish as far back as i know them. Ive done it with every type of Guppy, every cichlid, etc. that I've bred before. After that i can no longer control what they do. But im in the hobby to have fun and enjoy, and if i cross two species that in most aspects are almost identical to have my fun, then so be it. Im sure that, as LFS fish, they are not truly one specie or the other anyways.

And also, the ones i have, as far as i can tell, are Carpinte. So, unless they have already been hybridized, they arent "mutts".

And i did read and take note of everything you said. Im just a bit ticked off as this is a touchy subject for me when it is brought up in such an unwarranted fashion.
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You do realize your posting on a public forum correct? If the answer is yes then be prepared for feedback whether you disagree or not, you open yourself up for all opinions. I couldn't agree more with the young Mr.Gecko and his opinions on the hyrbids and the future of fishkeeping. So if you don't want opinions then don't post...

 

[mikem691]

You do realize your posting on a public forum correct? If the answer is yes then be prepared for feedback whether you disagree or not, you open yourself up for all opinions. I couldn't agree more with the young Mr.Gecko and his opinions on the hyrbids and the future of fishkeeping. So if you don't want opinions then don't post...

As a keeper of a Hybrid I also agree with Kyle and HUKIT.

 

[TMRC Exotics]

I'm by no means a purist, or an expert, but I agree with the opinions of the experts. There is no sense in intentionally hybridizing. I've kept hybrids, even had accidental hybridization occur but I would not advise doing so intentionally. Its your tank and your decision though, so do as you wish.

 

[LayzorBeams]

Well, i said it would be my last word on this, but i revoke that for a few minutes while i post this.

I am open to the opinions of hybrids, and pretty much anything. Im a really open-minded person who is willing to switch sides based off of logical reasoning versus emotions. Emotions don't have as much effect on me as others, which is why I'm able to be so open-minded.

Im not really upset about people not liking hybrids. However, i am upset that the issue was brought up in such a fashion. It wasn't really, IMO, needed for what i was asking and wasn't sensitively worded. So it being brought up so unwarrantedly kind of put me off.

Also, i get that I'm on a public forum. But, as pretty much all of you more seasoned forum users have said, "don't hijack threads." I know that this isn't the same thing, but its much easier to be appropriate about things like this if they are approached properly and a bit more respectfully.

Also, I'm by no means an expert. I seem to think along a different line than a lot of the older members here, but i am willing to listen to your thoughts and opinions and change my viewpoints as long as things are logical.

To me, going to the LfS and buying a fish like a Texas and assuming it is pure Texas doesn't seem logical, now or in 10 years. So i don't think it is reasonable to create conflict (which, in part, was my fault) over an issue that wont be fixed by one person. It makes sense to me that as long as things are advertised properly, hybrids are ok. There are other places where people can, and usually prefer to, get breeding stock.

So again, I'm not upset about the debate I'm upset at how it was brought up.

Also, i fully apologize if i managed to hurt anyones feeling or anything, my intention wasn't to do so. I meant to defend my opinions, and i can see that i did so in a manner that was a bit more aggressive than my usual method. @FreakGecko- sorry if i came off as a bit arrogant or ignorant there, its one of the things that gets me a bit worked up, as it seems to me as an unwarranted aggression towards wonderful creatures. So again, I'm sorry.





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[TMRC Exotics]

This wasn't hijacking, you brought up the idea that you would hybridize your fish and opinions were given, I can't fault anyone for that. Its fine if you disagree but I feel the opinions supplied were factually and respectfully presented. For what its worth you won't hurt my feelings if you do, and no you alone won't dilute the available stock of pure fish but its this line of thinking that when applied to generations of simultaneous keepers that could cause an effect. Im certain no one here meant to offend you, its just that some hold really polarized opinions. As a hobbyist I understand their position.

 

[RedDevil83]

So how about them hybrids guys?

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[RedDevil83]

I meant dodgers yeah dodgers.....

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