this is going to sound stupid

[jetajockey]

I think he brings up a good point. I don't think handling fish with hands is any more harmful than using a net or especially a towel, but on the social interaction aspect I think there is some worthwhile discussion to be had. I'm not a biologist but I do know that we as humans tend to put our own emotion into animals (aka anthropomorphism). That said, I don't believe that fish have the capacity or desire/need to 'bond', so to speak, at least not on a human level. This is evidenced by single species tanks that are successful without any kind of bonding (interspecies or not) among other things.

Simply put, fish are happy if you give them adequate housing and food.

 

[Convict2161]

I think he brings up a good point. I don't think handling fish with hands is any more harmful than using a net or especially a towel, but on the social interaction aspect I think there is some worthwhile discussion to be had. I'm not a biologist but I do know that we as humans tend to put our own emotion into animals (aka anthropomorphism). That said, I don't believe that fish have the capacity or desire/need to 'bond', so to speak, at least not on a human level. This is evidenced by single species tanks that are successful without any kind of bonding (interspecies or not) among other things.

Simply put, fish are happy if you give them adequate housing and food.

That's why I say agree to disagree. Your last comment says it all and with adequate housing and food the fish are happy, maybe the owner of the fish takes a little comfort or maybe it's calming to the owner of the fish to have a little interaction with them therefor making them happy also, is that wrong? I wouldn't say so. Is it wrong not to? I would say no either. What I would say is...

If no harm is being done then...

To each there own

 

[jetajockey]

That's a bit different than what I've gleaned from this thread, though. I think we can all agree that gentle handling of fish is not detrimental (except in really small fish, I know this for a fact). I definitely agree to each his own, I don't really care what people do with their fish.

The main point of contention was this part:

whos to say they dont need human touch?

My question to that is who says that they do, or even came to that conclusion at some point? And if it is true that they do, wouldn't it pose an ethical concern to those who don't handle their fish?

 

[Convict2161]

That's a bit different than what I've gleaned from this thread, though. I think we can all agree that gentle handling of fish is not detrimental (except in really small fish, I know this for a fact).

The main point contention was this part:

My question to that is who says that they do, or even came to that conclusion at some point? And if it is true that they do, wouldn't it pose an ethical concern to those who don't handle their fish?

Point taken. If it were fact then those who didn't would be neglecting there fish by not showing affection and human contact.

 

[garfy]

You must not be using the appropriate equipment. The best way to move a fish is with a vessel which would allow you to pull the fish out with some of its water without making contact with the fish. Yes sometimes grabbing a large fish with your hands may be necessary but even then there is the right equipment without the trauma of being grabbed. Fish are not lap dogs or a parrot. How do you gauge that they don't mind being petted?

How do you think a female mbuna is stripped.You have to hold her to strip her.After a few times she gets relatively used to it.Its not a problem to handle a fish you just have to be careful.

 

[Paxlerod]

How do you think a female mbuna is stripped.You have to hold her to strip her.After a few times she gets relatively used to it.Its not a problem to handle a fish you just have to be careful.

Yes, I agree. I have only been referring to unnecessary handling, stroking or petting of fish. For some kind of emotional gratification.

 

[Convict2161]

Yes, I agree. I have only been referring to unnecessary handling, stroking or petting of fish. For some kind of emotional gratification.

Not to come off rude and please if I do I apologize. To me it sounds like your really bothered by people getting "emotional gratification" from there fish.

Don't let it get to you. Let others do as they please. Someone can stroke a rock and feel comfort for all I care. If it floats there boat then let it float and set sail. I just won't be on the boat!

Know what I mean?

 

[absolutangel04]

If what your saying is correct... What are we doing eating them. I do not want to eat an animal that wants/needs human physical contact. I love my fish. But they are fish. I am in awe of those that are advocating the need to physically stroke your fish for the emotional gratification. I would hope someone on this site with some expertise would step forward and get this straightened out. Even at sea world the only reason creatures allow human touch is because they have been conditioned that is how you get food.

I am thinking you may have quoted me accidentally, because there is absolutely no place in my post where I said that fish need human touch. All my post said is that gentle touches don't hurt them and are not detrimental. I am a scientist and I have handled quite a few fish for tagging ect and they are fine and we follow them for years. If the fish comes up to your hand to be petted, I see no issue with it. I do agree with David that most fish petting is for your own emotional involvement more than anything else, but I see no issue with that as long as it doesn't harm the fish. Mostly, I am just saying that I have learned that handling your average larger fw fish gently does not harm it.
Some do come up and beg to be touched, I have had them do it as have many other fish keepers. I do indeed believe that it's because they figured out my hand feeds them so they are looking for food and not companionship, but it doesn't hurt them, so I don't see an issue with it. I am not going to constantly pull my hand out of the tank while cleaning so my molly doesn't touch me, I don't care if she rubs against me a little. The same can said for petting, it doesn't hurt them, and many fish come up to you voluntarily so I don't see an issue with doing this act that doesn't hurt them as long as somebody has the common sense to be gentle with the critters.

 

[5x5]

I agree that quickly handling fish with wet hands is preferable to something dry and rough like a towel.

This conversation got really strange with all this talk about petting fish. I love my fish as much as any other enthusiast, but that's just weird.

 

[Convict2161]

I agree that quickly handling fish with wet hands is preferable to something dry and rough like a towel.

This conversation got really strange with all this talk about petting fish. I love my fish as much as any other enthusiast, but that's just weird.

That's my point! Weird or not lol who are we judge?

 

[Wyomingite]

Interesting thread. All I know is all my large cichlids try to eat my fingers if they stray into the tank...

WYite

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

Ok thank you every one all i know is when cleaning my oscar or jacks tank they come up to me... and i enjoy giving a pet to em... if i dont touch my jack he'll swim under my arm n rub against it.

 

[Wy Renegade]

Been following and was thinking about this a little this afternoon; kind of interesting to think about. We generally think that things like cats and dogs need human companionship, and yet if you've ever seen a feral cat or a feral dog, you know that simply isn't the case. We have several cats around the house and all of them are well cared for and well feed. When we are outside working, they all start coming around crawling up on our lap or getting under our hands while we're working in order to get some attention. This past summer however, a little stray kitten showed up out of nowhere and was obviously about half-starved. I thought I would catch it and give it some food. It most definitely did not want, nor did it need my companionship or attention. The little sucker bit me three different times - once hard enough it went through my fingernail. This is an animal that we typically think of as needing/wanting human companionship. Do they, or like the fish are they just responding to the hand that feeds them. If cats and dogs have in fact learned to respond to the hand that feeds them, why should fish be any different?

 

[DragonFish71]

I hand feed my syno cats and rub their bellies. The buggers are big, beautiful and very healthy.

For handling larger fish that have spines or stiff pectoral fins, it is easier to handle them than to net them, also safer for the fish. Try getting a pictus cat out of a net. I do more handling than netting. I cup them in both hands to move them, they don't seem to thrash around as badly as in nets (this is for almost all my fish)

 

[Paxlerod]

So we all agree that physically handling them may at times be necessary. Also that inadvertently touching them will not always harm them. But them approaching us while working in the tank is it them wanting human affection? Or is it just food they are after or just curiosity.

Either way Convict you crack me up. I was just honestly in awe that some hobbyist really do have this desire or belief to that petting/stroking fish is a good thing. If people like to hug trees they can certainly pet fish. I just don't believe that it is in the fishes best interest. Hopefully the OP isn't left with even more confusion. Out......

 

[Convict2161]

So we all agree that physically handling them may at times be necessary. Also that inadvertently touching them will not always harm them. But them approaching us while working in the tank is it them wanting human affection? Or is it just food they are after or just curiosity.

Either way Convict you crack me up. I was just honestly in awe that some hobbyist really do have this desire or belief to that petting/stroking fish is a good thing. If people like to hug trees they can certainly pet fish. I just don't believe that it is in the fishes best interest. Hopefully the OP isn't left with even more confusion. Out......

Haha I try my best.... I was never much of a tree huger though....