Want German Blue Rams AND Yellow Labs...will this work?

[bs6749]

I would like to purchase some German Blue Rams and have heard that they prefer a pH of anywhere from 5.5-7.0. Most of the other fish that I would like to buy including a pleco or two, probably some tetras, ghost shrimp, a blue crayfish, some freshwater clams, etc., etc. will work in this pH range since the fish are from the same general geographic area. My problem/question is that I would like to have some African cichlids in this setup as well (a 55 gallon tank) but the pH ranges are not optimal for both. I was wondering if there was anything that I could do (maybe a neutral pH) that would make this "work". I was curious as to whether the fish (the yellow labs) could live in a neutral pH and what extremes they could tolerate. Is pH mainly a factor for breeding? If so I would like to have the pH level that favors the GBR's but I don't want to sacrifice the cool colors of the African cichlids such as the yellows. Any advice?

 

[Zagz]

I personally would not put rams in with more aggressive cichlids as they will suffer a great deal of stress. Rams are far more peaceful than yellows for example.

 

[bs6749]

Aren't labs considered "semi-aggressive"? I completely understand what you are saying but I was hoping that such a "large" tank could hold 4 yellows and 2-3 blues without much conflict. It will be planted quite heavily and there will be ample hiding spaces if I were to try placing both species in the same tank. What do you think about this? Do you still feel that I should avoid trying it or is it at least worth a try?

 

[Zagz]

I have a 125 gal and would not put my rams in with my cichlids. When your yellows are young it might be ok, but when they get to sexual maturity they will get aggressive when trying to mate. I have 8 yellows and they have their very mean moments.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I agree completly with Anne. Labs and Rams should not be mixed. Labs are an African Mbuna whereas German Blues are a New World. Labs are "peaceful" in situations with other Africans. They should not be mixed with Peaceful community fish. Their aggression will shine through.

On a side notw, are you planning on having all of those fish that you listed in the same tank? The Blue Lobster is really not a good idea.

 

[bs6749]

Yes FishyFanatic I WAS planning on putting all of them in the same tank. I heard that the blue lobster will stay away from the fish for the most part but I realize that it may eat the clams and the shrimp if it gets ahold of them. Do you suggest just doing away with the lobster?

I would like to have some "colorful" fish in my setup but it looks like the fish that I want will not do well with one another. Maybe I will just go with an African cichlid setup because the colors are FAR MORE interesting to me. I liked the GBR's because of the nice coloration but I guess I don't know what I am going to do right now since nothing seems like it will work for me. I have two paths to choose from and ca't decide. Maybe I won't even get an aquarium after all.

 

[maxwell1295]

GBR's prefer soft acidic water, while Yellow Labs prefer a much higher pH and hardness. They are also 2 totally different types of cichlids. Rams are New World/SA cichlids and Labs are African/Lake Malawi. The two should not be mixed...

Other than the fact that they are fish, are cichlids, and are both beautiful....they have nothing in common.

 

[Viperboy]

The blue crayfish will without a doubt go after ur fish and eventually eat them .... they are very aggressive and should be in a specis only tank .... on the note of rams and labs i would agree with everyone else and say do one or the other .... i have not had GBR but they are beautiful . but i do have bolivians and they are awesome too and you can keep all kinds of other community fish with them. An african setup is what i plan to do next in a 55 but i decided to go with a community first .... ultimately its up to you and what you decide you wanna take care of and look at everyday

Ray

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You should defiantely get an aquarium. To satisfy all your needs, get multiple. lol After you get your first one there is no turning back. Africans are beautiful fish with great personality. A 55 gal tank is perfect for them. If you really want that Lobster, get another smaller tank just for him. They will eat anythign they can catch. And if they catch a sleeping fish, well, you know what will happen. Good Luck!

 

[Zagz]

I agree that multiple tanks are best.

 

[bs6749]

I don't have room/money/time for 2 aquariums. It is either one or none. Right now I am on the fence as to which way I am going to go. I wanted to breed German Blue Rams and that is why I got this whole idea in the first place. I figured that I could get a breeding pair, some ghost shrimp, clams, a pleco, a blue lobster, and some live plants and have a really cool setup. The thing is, you guys are all saying that the blue lobster will eat the fish (which I now agree with), but I had heard that the lobster would leave fish alone for the most part. I guess that is just a big disappointment to me that I can't have the "perfect" aquarium that I had wanted because the fish and invertebrates won't get along well. I don't care if the Rams eat the shrimp or clams but I don't want the lobster eating the RAMS! Do you guys think that the lobster would be okay in a tank with more aggressive fish such as yellow labs? I am not sure just because of the pH differences.

BTW - Nobody really addressed the pH thing yet. If they were of the same temperment could Rams and Africans co-exist? Why exactly do fish need a certain pH? Is it just for breeding purposes? One study I have seen showed that more GBR eggs survived at a pH of 5.0 than at a pH of 7.0. ~85% at 5.0 and 0% at 7.0 due to a fungus being able to grow on the eggs or something. Please tell me your ideas.

 

[Guest]

Most GBR's will spawn at 6.0 to 6.3 PH. I keep mine at 6.2 the GH is a little high for them to breed but working on that. The rams can be kept in a wide range of differnt PH levels but are really easy to kill with the hardness of the water more then a high PH.
If I where you I'd look for cveck GBR's and stay away from the Asia rams. There a lot harder to find but will live longer then the Asian ones.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

To address the pH issue, fish can be kept at any pH level (within reason) as long as they are properly acclimated. I have Rams, Angels, and Tetra's at a level of 8.2. They will not spawn at that level, but they are thriving. Our water is also liquid rock but they were purchased from a lfs with similar water levels.

 

[bs6749]

The reason that I was wondering about the pH level of the GBR's is because I found out some info about them at www.liveaquaria.com . It said that they should be in a pH of 5.0- 7.0 but if you say that a higher pH will work than I believe you. I saw some GBR's for sale online and the seller said that he kept the water at a pH of 8.2 and I thought that maybe it was a typo but I guess not.

So Fishyfanatic, was I right about pH levels being associated with breeding? It seems like what you are suggesting is what I thought all along. Fish can live in water of any reasonable pH but they may not breed under those conditions. It would be possible then for GBR's and Africans (and other creatures) to live in the same environent but their temperments may not allow them to coincide without conflict.

 

[Argblarg]

My GBR have spawned twice this month in 7.8 pH. Maybe they are just really in love, who knows. The eggs are always gone the 2nd night and I suspect my fatty Gourami so I will have a nightlight next time. The LFS has theirs spawning constantly at 7.8 so maybe it is dependant on the strain.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

As far as I know, the pH is only of a concern if you are planning on breeding. They are sensitive fish and do not take well to high Nitrate readings or any presence of ammonia or Nitrites. Make sure the tank has established before purchasing. I lost 4 so far. Three of the loses were due to feline curiousity. Why a fish would swim to the surface at a batting paw is beyong me. And not just one fish, but three of them. I caught the cats in the act. It was not pretty. The other Ram was looking a little weak when I bought him. He was the runt of the bunch and never gained coloration. It was not a suprise when he died since he never really ate too much.

As Argblarg pointed out, they can breed in higher levels, but it is rare. They both must be tank bred at the higher levels. Stay away from wild caught species unless you have a low pH. They tend to do poorly in higher pH levels.

HTH

 

[bs6749]

Yes, thank you Fishyfanatic and also a big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. I have learned a great deal more about fish from this thread alone.

I am sorry to hear about that happening to your fish Fishyfanatic, but I have to admit, I laughed at the thought of seeing it happen. As you pointed out, how could the fish be so stupid? I just find it funny how they could be so dumb, no offense meant. I will be closely monitoring the water conditions if I do get an aquarium, and if I have any problems I will know where to go. You guys are great help. Thanks again!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I thought it was rather funny too. My kitten is infatuated with fish and we put a chair next to the 55 gal tank so she can watch. She likes to bat at the glass but I never thought she would get on top of the tank. I left the glass top open and we left for several hours. We came back and she was just pulling out her third Ram. The other cat (Nemo) was on the floor eating something (assuming a Ram). Looking back, yeah that was pretty comical to walk in and see that happening.