Nano ammonia problems

[smyr2001]

Hi everyone.

I have researched this in prior posts and other forums, but I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I'm hoping you guys are smarter than me and can figure this out. I'm stumped.

Real quick back story, I set my Nano 29 up in late June. My lfs convinced me to cycle the tank with two Chromis in it from the start and use Aquafin Cycle. They promised the fish would live... They died.

I read somewhere that the best way to cycle a new tank is with shrimp from a grocery store. I decided a dead chromis would be good enough, so i left it in there to rot. It did and ammonia spiked. A week later, I tested and ammonia and nitrites were at 0, so I went and got a shrimp, two chromis, two clowns, a lawnmower blenny and an anemone (at different times of course - spread each one out over several weeks). I have been struggling with my ammonia ever since.

I fight with my ammonia levels on a daily basis. For several weeks, I did daily 5 gallon water changes. I pulled the stock filter out and now wrap pillow batting around charcoal and place it in the middle section on the tray in two places. I replace half of it every week. I have an ammonia reducing filter pad and nitrate reducing pad in the first chamber and an air stone in the third chamber. I rinse the sponge out near the pump once a week.

My anemone died last week. I really think it's because I keep fighting with the ammonia so much. Last night, it was at .25. I added Kent's Ammonia Pro and tested 30 mins later. It dropped to 0. This morning when I woke up, I tested again. I'm back to .25. I added more Ammonia Pro and do water changes several times a week. Every time I do a water change, I stir the substrate. I feed once a day but make sure I do it only enough to be consumed in 5 mins or less. I've thought about dropping that even more, but the fish look hungry. Last night I got home late and the clown nearly jumped out of the tank when I opened the lid it was so hungry.

I'm tired of fighting this. I'm worried that I didn't let the tank cycle enough. I keep adding Aquafin Cycle (I've read that it's garbage, but I still have it so I'm using it) and bought a powdered bacteria from Petco to add. I added it every day for a week and a half. Still having problems.

What am I doing wrong? If I didn't let it cycle correctly, can I get the bacteria in that the tank needs without everything dying off?

Thanks in advance for any help. I'd really appreciate any advice!

Thanks!!!

 

[Hondatek]

Stirring the substrate could release stuff like ammonia so stop stirring it up and keep up the water changed an see of that helps

 

[hippy guy]

Why would you stop stirring up the substrate?? You want it as clean as possible, if its releasing ammonia when its stirried, then its releasing it , letting it settle will do no good. It seems like you didn't cycle properly. It should take more than a week, did you see ammo spike, then trates spike, then everything to 0? What test kit are you using?

 

[hippy guy]

Also, from what I've read, those extra bacteria out compete the usual benificial bacteria for ammo and trates and trites, keeping them from ever forming in the first place. Id say stop using those, don't replace the filters, just rince in tank water. If your levels are high, do at least 50% daily, or twice daily if needed. There are a lot of good articles about fish in and fishless, but from what I know, coral and anemone are pretty sensitive, so maybe re housing until your properly cycled would be better...

 

[smyr2001]

I'm using the API test kits. No. I've never seen nitrites above 0. But, I figured that was because I didn't test during the week the fish was rotting. I thought that if ammonia spiked and went to 0, and nitrites were now at 0 as well, i must have missed the spike.

Yup, I should have waited more. I definitely messed up. But now that I have so much in the tank now, I'm hoping to fix it and have the tank cycled correctly without having to kill the fish. I hope that's possible.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[hippy guy]

Another idea (sorry I keep re reading to check I've got it all) would be more shrimp (the live kind) they make sure you don't have leftover food, and they have a low bioload.
Really, id just suggest an api master saltwater test kit, and make sure everything is where it needs to be, and keep up with pwc.s daily till your set.
What is your substrate? If its gravel of some kind, make sure your cleaning it with a vac, if its sand, food and poo can sink down into it over time, and form bubbles of ammo and trites that just sit in your tank being absorbed. Stirring sand will make sure that's not the case..
Best of luck, I'm always on here, so leme know if you have any more questions, and ill do my best to help

 

[Hondatek]

Fish waste and uneaten food will settle under substrate . Of course that turns into ammo. So how can you say 100 percent that stirring up the sand is a good idea? Not trying to argue

 

[smyr2001]

Thanks for the help, Man. I really appreciate it.

I bought what the bag said is live sand (but it really is more of a crushed coral). Before I do a water change, I take a small object, like a toothbrush and stir all of the visible gravel and get the left over crap water-borne and then I take my siphon and keep stirring the substrate as it sucks the water out.

So, here's my question, though. When you cycle the tank to begin with, the ammonia and nitrite levels spike to lethal levels. If I stop using that and let the bacteria grow, won't ammonia spike and wipe my tank? My anemone died, but the fish and shrimp are thriving.

I've thought about stop using the manufactured bacteria and just letting it go with water changes, but I've also heard that frequent water changes stunt bacteria growth and stop the cycle. Is that true do you know?

 

[hippy guy]

As the waste and excess food break down, they form pockets of gas. The gas stays under the sand, thus giving it more time to diffure into the water, as oppose to getting it out and up to the surface, so it dissapates outside the tank. Sand must be kept clean, just like gravel should be vac.d. its to remove the mess that settles. Plus when you stir, thw sand tends to settle faster than non broken up matter.
All I can say is id stop using the extra bacteria mixes, and just keep up with pwc's.
My girlfriend had changed a tank and filters and all that, and we had to do 50% 2 a day sometimes.
Its not impossible, and with a little work your tank will settle in, and all will be well

 

[smyr2001]

Thanks. I'll just be patient. I owe ya. Thank you.

 

[hippy guy]

No, adding more water is like opening your window! Too much fresh air is never a bad thing, and your fish will produce the neccisary componets to cycle your tank. Your levels will rise, maybe too high for corals and such, but if you keep up with water changes you will take out what the establishing bacteria cannot yet handle. Are you using tap water, or ro/di?
Also crushed coral, as in a gravel or a sand? If its a gravel, maybe a gravel vac is the answer. Just stirring up gravel isn't best, because it has so many cracks and crevices for stuff to settle way down. Live sand and rock is good though, is there live rock in the tank?
Live rock, or a very porus rock that can be seeded is basically a super filter in sw tanks.

 

[hippy guy]

No problem, like I said, its not impossible, just not easy either :/
Ill tell ylu though its always worth it!

 

[smyr2001]

I use tap water. I used to use R/O but it was a hassle running to the grocery store three times a week. So, I treated tap water and tested it. The tests looked great so I use it now.

Yea. I have 30 lbs of live rock in the tank. The bag said live sand, but it's for sure gravel. I live in Utah and haven't been to a beach in years, but I'm pretty sure that's not sand.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but I have one more:

I'm using the ammonia pro to detoxify the ammonia that's in there between water changes (as much as I'd like to do daily water changes, I don't have the time and salt's not real cheap. I try to do them every other day or so).

Does that interfere with the cycle? I'm assuming since it leaves the ammonia in there, bacteria has time to work on it and give the tank a chance to cycle. I really hate the idea of putting my fish through ammonia poisoning.

Thanks again!

 

[th64]

Using tap water could be one of the factors of your unstable readings in your tank. Get a big tote and fill it up once with RO/DI and start using that for water changes to make it easier in the long run. As far as I know (someone correct me if im wrong) stirring up the substrate will release nitrate into the water as well which could be harmful for your fish.

 

[carey]

You should not be mixing up your sand ever. It's supposed to harbor bacteria.

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? Some people get trace readings from theirs. that would explain why you can't keep it under control.

How big is your tank and what kind of lighting do you have? While ammonia is for sure no good, readings of .25 shouldnt be enough to kill an anenome.'

 

[hippy guy]

@carey.. really? I thought leaving your sand untouched for ever was bad..?wouldn't stirring up the asand just remove food and poo, and not any bacteriea in the sand?

 

[carey]

Stirring the sand will release a mass amount of nitrates and other bad things. You can skim the surface of the sand with a python but you arent supposed to disturb the sand bed if at all possible.

With proper flow there shouldnt be any solids settling enough to become lodged in the sand.

For example, when I bought a used setup the sand was totally mucked up, and the nitrates skyrocketed. I had to do several back to back pwc's to get them down enough to put fish in.

 

[maxst2]

If you clean the sand, do it in sections like 1/4 or 1/8 at a time on your pwc times with the hose or gravel cleaner. Otherwise you'll nuke the tank.. That's why when you move a tank, you get new sand, or rinse out what you have really really well.

Also, you added way too much at once after it "cycled". What happened is you started another cycle since the bio-load to get up to the load you have now wasn't strong enough.

I recommend 50% water change now and for the next few days.