PO(4)'d

[tbates]

Been working on a PO4 problem that I believe is causing a cyano problem along with some increased algae growth. Been doing regular PWC (just completed another 5 gal out of 12 total since nitrates were a bit on the high side - about 10) and all water parameters been looking good.

I wanted to eliminate any/all sources of PO4 - when I tested flake and frozen brine shrimp I thought I had found a significant source. I didn't really want to try RO flushing a small amount of brine and thought that the 'kids' must be getting a bit tired of what others have termed 'fish popcorn' so, searching the forums I stumbled upon "Hara's blender mush" formula and quickly visited my local fish monger. Picked up 3 shrimp, a healthy sized scallop and a fillet of Tilapia. Dropped all in the Cuisy-art with some nori and got a nice batch of mixed sized chunks.

Thought "OK, let's see what this registers on the PO4 meter" (ok, it's a Salifert test kit). Crap - a reading of about .5 or slightly higher.

Fed the fish with the stuff since I had it defrosted anyways - they weren't all that crazy about it. I guess they're accustomed to shrimps...

Did the fish monger give me some 'enriched' seafood (like KFC's chicken - a secret blend of PO4 and other secret ingredients) or is this to be expected? I'd really, really, really like to kill of the cyano (ok, minimize it) so that the nano doesn't look like the swamp thing...

Anyone else test blender mush and get different results?? Been following all the steps to reduce the cyano problem (reduced lites, feedings, PWCs) and was hoping to take another step in the right direction.

...SIGH...

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I believe any seafood that's previously been frozen (which is just about all of it except for those of us lucky enough to live near the ocean ) will show a trace of phosphate from the solution that's sprayed on the fish to help keep it "fresh." It's kind of like the sulfites that are added to dried fruit to keep them from molding. I'm not at all sure what is added to the fish, but I know it's just not fish that has been frozen.

When I cycled my tank with a cocktail shrimp I was surprised to see phosphates show up in an "empty" tank. Did some experimenting with the shrimp and that's where it was coming from.

 

[Devilishturtles]

No clue about the shrimp thing, though it does makes sense.

Just a thought though. How is water flow in your tank? I've found that increasing flow can keep cyano from getting a foothold, especially on sandy bottoms.

 

[tbates]

I guess I'll tell the wife it's time to move I'm sure that'll go over big. Once again the plague of living 1000 miles from the nearest ocean strikes again.

I guess I'll stick with the mush and keep the brine shrimp for 'movie night!' Maybe I'll hang out behind the local 'high-end' seafood place that says they fly stuff in every day and beg for a spare shrimp or two...

I've been playing with movement - been trying to place a Koralia nano in different places to keep a nice chaotic flow without kicking up the DSB. Looks like maybe I need another since the cyano seems to play 'chicken' and shows up on the side opposite the Koralia. Can there be too much water movement?

I'll be glad with this thing settles down and I can enjoy it more than service it!

 

[roka64]

Try soaking your mush in garlic guard, zoe and selcon. See if that will entice them to eat. How often are you feeding?

 

[tbates]

thanks - I'll give the soaking a shot... I was also going to give a try to rinsing the mush with RO/DI to see if I can help get down the PO4 - soaking will help to put back in any of the 'goodness' that gets washed away by the rinse.

They've been getting fed about every other day - although I'd been stretching it to every 3-4 days in an effort to help cut down excess nutrients that seemed to be fueling the hair algae (which has cleared up for the most part) and now cyano.

 

[roka64]

What salt mix are you using?
What kind of filtration are you using?

 

[tbates]

Instant Ocean - PWCs of at least 20% on a mostly-weekly basis, just completed a 50% change on Thurs as nitrates were somewhat high (somewhere in the 10 range according to the Salifert test).

Filtration is LR rubble in both rear compartments, about 15-20 lbs of LR in the tank, and 2"-3" DSB.

 

[roka64]

I had some problems with IO salt mix and switched to reef crystals and have not had any problems since.

 

[Innovator]

Salt mixes do not cause algae problems, improper balance does, and phosphate is but a componant of what algae needs to thrive. Most of your phosphate will come from food input whether it be fresh, canned, or frozen. Soaking the food is fine for thawing, but rinsing would be better. Have you actually taken a PO4 reading? Phosphorous plays a role in tissue developement for invertebrates so complete removal is unlikely and not recommended. Have you used macroalgae such as Chaetomorpha or Caulerpa racemosa for export? Skimming (increase flow/oxygenation) can also help reduce PO4 along with various GFO medias. Raising your Alk (4.0+), pH (raises with alk additions), and Ca can also limit algae growth by fueling other competing organisms.

 

[tbates]

Latest numbers:
PH = 8.4
PO4 = .02
NH3 = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 5

Not a lot of room in the nano for Chaetomorpha or Caulerpa and I don't have the plumbing or desire to run a refugium (the wife gets a bit nervous when I get my drill and threaten to add some additional 'ventilation' to her fancy furniture).

No AK or CA tests 'in house' and I'd be nervous about going too much higher on the PH (the reading was taken after the lights have been off for about 2 hours). The PO4 is relatively low compared to earlier - I think I need to create a routine of rinsing with RO/DI. LFS didn't have any zoe or selcon so I'll get some ordered tonight and soak food with it after rinsing.

Might try roka64's suggestion and try some reef crystals for a bit to see if it makes any difference.

Any good methods for rinsing food? I was thinking in a fine mesh catch net, but maybe it's not the most efficient with the difficulty getting bits out of the net and back into a container for the zoe/selcon soak.

Appreciate the comments and suggestions!!