Algae problem!

[MarkW19]

Cool, thanks Steve. I dont feed all the different foods at once, just a bit of 2 at a time, then the other 2 the following day.

So, to verify:

Get a DI attachment for my RO unit.

Get some snails (35g tank - how many, what sizes, what type(s), and will they interfere with my hermit crabs or shrimp or vice-versa? I guess they don't add to the bioload and can be put straight in the tank from the LFS after a drip acclimation?)

Ideally, what type of snails, how many, and what size should I get out of the following, bearing in mind the majority of the algae problem is the sand, with the glass not being too bad (can clean it easily enough myself) and the powerheads/rock/fake plants fairly bad:-

Bumblebee
Turbo
Nerite
Trochus
Turbo
Margarita
Cerith
Nassarius

Also, when I add the snails, will they use up the calcium in my tank more than the inhabitants are at the mo (fireshrimp, 4 fish, 10 small hermits)? My calcium is a little on the low side (approx 380) but I think is balanced against my dKH which is about 10.

GPH may be a small part of the issue but not that significant.

I'm quite out of action ATM following a hospital op, so bi-monthly waterchanges are really all I can push to ATM.

If I do the above (add the DI and snails, clean the filter and change the rowaphos every 2 weeks during waterchanges for the time being until things are under control) and give it a good cleanup, I will definitely see a good improvement with my algae situation in a few weeks? And hopefully stop the issue from returning?

BTW, how should I be cleaning my filter? Should I be doing anything with the media balls in the 2 baskets? And how should I be tackling the gunk on the wet/dry foam tube thingy?

Thanks!

 

[JPloman]

Just so you know, some of those snails are not reef safe. Thus if you have reef, you should not get them.

 

[MarkW19]

OK, thanks - which of those snails aren't reef safe?

I'm looking for a good selection of mainly sand ones, with rock ones less important and not really bothered about glass ones.

 

[JPloman]

It is my understanding that Cerith snails are not reef safe. Now others may not agree with me on this. My good friends have told me not to put them in my tank because they have been known to eat reef.

Bumble Bee snails also are iffy. I have them in my tank and they have never touched my reef. I have heard others say that they have had problems with them.

Nerite snails are another one that I have heard are not reef safe. I can not find anything to prove this. Maybe someone could lend us some more input.

 

[steve-s]

So, to verify:

Get a DI attachment for my RO unit.

Check....

Get some snails (35g tank - how many, what sizes, what type(s), and will they interfere with my hermit crabs or shrimp or vice-versa? I guess they don't add to the bioload and can be put straight in the tank from the LFS after a drip acclimation?)

The hermits may prey on the snails for their shells, it really depends on the species of hermit and what empty shells are already available. The snails will have no impact on the bioload.

Ideally, what type of snails, how many, and what size should I get out of the following, bearing in mind the majority of the algae problem is the sand, with the glass not being too bad (can clean it easily enough myself) and the powerheads/rock/fake plants fairly bad:-

Bumblebee Can prey on other snails, not a good choice
Turbo 5-10
Nerite 5-10
Trochus 5-10
Margarita 5-10
Cerith 10
Nassarius 10

10 of each cerith and nassarius for sure. The rest you can mix up as you please but an additional 15-20 over and above the first two I mentioned.

Also, when I add the snails, will they use up the calcium in my tank more than the inhabitants are at the mo (fireshrimp, 4 fish, 10 small hermits)? My calcium is a little on the low side (approx 380) but I think is balanced against my dKH which is about 10.

I would make sure you maintain the DKH for the time being. The slightly higher level is most likely helping this from becoming a larger problem. The Ca definately needs to come up though. A proper balanced range for a 10 DKH alk is closer to 430 ppm Ca. The snails will however have little impact on the levels if doing weekly (or so) water changes. IO salts?

If I do the above (add the DI and snails, clean the filter and change the rowaphos every 2 weeks during waterchanges for the time being until things are under control) and give it a good cleanup, I will definitely see a good improvement with my algae situation in a few weeks? And hopefully stop the issue from returning?

It will take more than a few weeks most likely but all these things will definately reduce the problem significantly. I can't guarantee it will be eliminated though.

BTW, how should I be cleaning my filter? Should I be doing anything with the media balls in the 2 baskets?

Is this the anaerobic chamber in the Eheim or just the filter area? I can't remember what model you have... If just the media balls in the filter area, place them in a bowl with tank water and gentley swish them around. Don't actually clean them. All you want to do is loosen large debris.

And how should I be tackling the gunk on the wet/dry foam tube thingy?

Eh?

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

It is my understanding that Cerith snails are not reef safe. Now others may not agree with me on this. My good friends have told me not to put them in my tank because they have been known to eat reef.

Bumble Bee snails also are iffy. I have them in my tank and they have never touched my reef. I have heard others say that they have had problems with them.

Nerite snails are another one that I have heard are not reef safe. I can not find anything to prove this. Maybe someone could lend us some more input.

Nerite and cerith snails are completely harmless. Whoever told you that is quite incorrect. They are strict algae grazers and have no interest in anything else.

The bumblebee however is a risk but not to corals. They are primarily carion consumers but have been known to prey on other snails in the absence of other foods or when an easy meal presents itself.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

Thanks again.

So, approx 40 snails altogether? I won't be able to see any sand my tank will just be swarming with snails!

I have 11 hermits - half are dwarf blue-legged and half are dwarf reg-legged.

I don't have any "spare" empty shells for them, because when I got some from my LFS a while ago I got them home and they stunk something rotten, so I threw them away. And they came out of an invert tank in my LFS! :/

I changed from IO salt to Tropic Marin pro reef, and I add buffer to it before waterchanges to get the dkh and ph up. I can only really do water changes every 2 weeks. Will this make a significant difference to my calcium level (thinking about the snails bringing it down)?

 

[JPloman]

It is my understanding that Cerith snails are not reef safe. Now others may not agree with me on this. My good friends have told me not to put them in my tank because they have been known to eat reef.

Bumble Bee snails also are iffy. I have them in my tank and they have never touched my reef. I have heard others say that they have had problems with them.

Nerite snails are another one that I have heard are not reef safe. I can not find anything to prove this. Maybe someone could lend us some more input.

Nerite and cerith snails are completely harmless. Whoever told you that is quite incorrect. They are strict algae grazers and have no interest in anything else.

The bumblebee however is a risk but not to corals. They are primarily carion consumers but have been known to prey on other snails in the absence of other foods or when an easy meal presents itself.

Cheers
Steve

Thanks! I really wanted to get some, but everyone I have talked to in my area was like NOOOO.

 

[steve-s]

So, approx 40 snails altogether? I won't be able to see any sand my tank will just be swarming with snails!

You will rarely see the nassarius or cerith much. 40 snails is a little on the higher side for your tank size (35 gal?) but you have alot of algae to deal with plus you can expect at least a 10% mortality rate as a rule.

I changed from IO salt to Tropic Marin pro reef, and I add buffer to it before waterchanges to get the dkh and ph up.

Correct the alk level then the next day correct the Ca level. If it's balanced going in, it will be easier to maintain.

I can only really do water changes every 2 weeks. Will this make a significant difference to my calcium level (thinking about the snails bringing it down)?

The consumption of CaCO3 from snails and the like is quite minimal. Even though they won't use that much, the chemistry still needs correcting. Improper chemistry can lead to premature death and inactivity.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

Thanks! I really wanted to get some, but everyone I have talked to in my area was like NOOOO.

I would really like to know where they got that idea? They are quite harmless.

I would suspect they may be thinking of a species that looks similar?? Who knows 8)

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

How do I get the Ca up then, and how do I keep it at the correct level?

I can just imagine the whole tank being coverered with all these snails! How come I won't see the Nassarius or Ceriths much? Where do they hide?

 

[steve-s]

How do I get the Ca up then, and how do I keep it at the correct level?

Get a stand alone CaCl additive. If available, I would highly recommend Kents Turbo Ca (dry beads).

I can just imagine the whole tank being coverered with all these snails! How come I won't see the Nassarius or Ceriths much? Where do they hide?

Believe it or not, you won't even notice them much. The cerith will hide in and about the rock during the day, mainly being active after lights out and the nassarius dwell underneath the sand.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

Will raising the Ca affect the ph or dkh at all? These have been stable in my tank since day one, so I really don't want to mess them up.

How is the Ca kept up at that level? Just by adding the Kent (like you do with buffer) at each water change before the water goes in, which is 20% every 2 weeks? I usually let the water mix for 12 hours before adding the buffer, then another 12 hours later add the water to my tank if the levels are ok. When during this period should I be adding the Ca? I don't want to be mixing the water for more than 24 hours if at all possible for domestic reasons.

I think I'll go with 10 nas and 10 cerith snails, and a couple of the rest, for a total of 30. 40 does seem a bit OTT

Would you definitely get some extra shells then for my crabs, when I get my snails? Getting them from my LFS before and them stinking and not looking very good has put me off putting them in my tank, that's all!

 

[steve-s]

Will raising the Ca affect the ph or dkh at all? These have been stable in my tank since day one, so I really don't want to mess them up.

Technically they're already "messed up". With the chemistry as it is, CaCO3 dependant animals will not grow properly and inverts such as crabs and snails will not be as active as they could. The Ca additions will not impact pH at all but can have a lowering effect on alkalinity if added directly to the tank. It will be minimal and easily corrected at your next water change as long as it's balanced. If I remember correctly, you have no hard corals only softies? If so, simpley add the Ca to the change water to regain the balance. After a few water chnages, it will come back eventaully, it'll just take much longer.

I don't want to be mixing the water for more than 24 hours if at all possible for domestic reasons.

Best suggestion then is to get a CaCl additive like the Turbo Ca and add it to the tank directly predissolved in a small glass of RO water. About ½ teaspoon/day should do it in about a week.

I think I'll go with 10 nas and 10 cerith snails, and a couple of the rest, for a total of 30. 40 does seem a bit OTT

The nassarius are not algae eaters so they will not contribute to the algae removal but rather help eliminate the wastes creating the algae. Your choice either way.

Would you definitely get some extra shells then for my crabs, when I get my snails? Getting them from my LFS before and them stinking and not looking very good has put me off putting them in my tank, that's all!

I would find something. The crabs need larger shells to move into as they grow regardless of the snail additions. Not having the empty shells will just make the snails a much more eager target. Most hobby/craft stores will have empty shells fairly cheap. Just be sure they are unpolished.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

Okie, I'll add the Turbo Calcium straight into the tank then. As it brings up the Ca, will it have adjusted as much as it's going to within 24 hours? ie. if I test the next day and find it's x, I'm then safe to put the same amount in again and expect it to raise it by the same value again, if you get me? So I should measure every 24 hours then add some more in, until I get to about 430?

How long should I let the Ca dissolve in the RO water for? And should I stir it or anything or just drop it in and leave it?

So, the alk may come down if I do this, but I simply add a bit more buffer at the next water change to balance it back up again?

Then, when the Ca and alk are ok in the tank (ie. after about a week for the Ca), I just add the Ca directly to the waterchange water from then on? If so, how much Ca do I know to put in the waterchange or is it just trial and error, and when should I add it, remembering I mix for 24 hours before putting it in the tank, and add the buffer after 12 hours of mixing?

Cheers Steve, hopefully last questions!

 

[steve-s]

Okie, I'll add the Turbo Calcium straight into the tank then. As it brings up the Ca, will it have adjusted as much as it's going to within 24 hours? ie. if I test the next day and find it's x, I'm then safe to put the same amount in again and expect it to raise it by the same value again, if you get me? So I should measure every 24 hours then add some more in, until I get to about 430?

Exactly! The Ca level can be tested within a few hours after adding though.

How long should I let the Ca dissolve in the RO water for? And should I stir it or anything or just drop it in and leave it?

Add to the RO water, stir and let dissolve. It will only take a few minutes and can be added straight away.

So, the alk may come down if I do this, but I simply add a bit more buffer at the next water change to balance it back up again?

Most likely it won't move down much at all. Just test it and see. You can easily correct it at the next water change, most likely without the need of buffer. Large daily Ca additions will impact the alk much faster than only adding small amounts daily.

Then, when the Ca and alk are ok in the tank (ie. after about a week for the Ca), I just add the Ca directly to the waterchange water from then on? If so, how much Ca do I know to put in the waterchange or is it just trial and error, and when should I add it, remembering I mix for 24 hours before putting it in the tank, and add the buffer after 12 hours of mixing?

What are the levels of your freshly mixed SW after adding the buffer? How large is the mixing vessel?

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

I'm doing a waterchange later today, so I'll test the Ca after the buffer (ie. just before adding the water to my tank) to see what it comes out at. I'll also measure my mixing vessel to see how big it is (actually an acrylic fish tank).

 

[MarkW19]

Which are the snails on the list above that will cling to the glass and eat the algae off it?

I'm going to skip these - my glass doesn't get too bad and I dont want snails stuck all over it!

I just want the snails that will sort the sand out, and plants/rock.

 

[steve-s]

All snails will migrate between the rock and glass. The only one that will remain soley in the sand is the nassarius but it will do nothing for the algae on the rock.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkW19]

To be honest, 90% of the problem is the sand. I think I'll maybe just go for 10 nassarius for now and see what happens. Can always add a few of the rest in at a later date if I want to tackle the plants and rock.