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Old 04-05-2004, 03:55 PM   #11
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Steve,

I have Seachem's Reef builder which is basically Sodium carbonate and bicarbonate. You are suggesting that I should use that and only that for a few days to boost up my Alk to around ~10DKH or so? Then when that is up there I should then begin dosing CaCl to bring the CA level up to balance with an alk of 10DKH?

Then when I have both levels where I want them, I should begin supplementing with Kalk and/or B-Ionic and continue to add the reef builder and CaCl as needed

Seems like a lot of testing. I thought the whole point of using Kalk and/or B-Ionic was to take the place of using the single additives. When the Alk and Ca levels are balanced out, why could you not simply use Kalk or B-Ionic to maintain the levels 100% of the time?
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Old 04-05-2004, 04:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggen
Steve,

I have Seachem's Reef builder which is basically Sodium carbonate and bicarbonate. You are suggesting that I should use that and only that for a few days to boost up my Alk to around ~10DKH or so? Then when that is up there I should then begin dosing CaCl to bring the CA level up to balance with an alk of 10DKH?
Yes, getting the alk in place first will make it much easier to gain a balance between the two. At least in the beginning until they are balanced I would bring the alk closer to 12 DKH. Personally I keep mine between 11-12 all the time. Keep in mind that you need to be sure the alk is optimum before each Ca addition.

Quote:
Then when I have both levels where I want them, I should begin supplementing with Kalk and/or B-Ionic and continue to add the reef builder and CaCl as needed
Correct!

Quote:
Seems like a lot of testing. I thought the whole point of using Kalk and/or B-Ionic was to take the place of using the single additives. When the Alk and Ca levels are balanced out, why could you not simply use Kalk or B-Ionic to maintain the levels 100% of the time?
While trying to get them balanced again yes, there will be extra testing. Once balanced you will be able to test as normal. I generally test every second week to be sure the chem remains balanced. As far as the balanced additives maintaining, they will not since the two parts in the tank are typically not used in a balanced fashion. Balanced additives are definately much easier to help keep chems in the right "range" but that does not mean the chem in the tank will remain balanced permanantly. Each weeks consumption will be slightly different than the last. Some weeks after testing you may only need to augment one part of the equation, not both in order to gain balance.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:43 PM   #13
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steve
are you sure his alk is low?
according to this chart (randy holmes-farley) his Ca is a bit low.

Ca/Alk
360/0
390/1.5
400/2.0
410/2.5 (seawater)
420/3.0
430/3.5
440/4.0
450/4.5
460/5.0

600/12 (possible CaCO3/CO2 Reactor Effluent)
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Peppermint Shrimp:
Crush two tbs minced mint leaves (no stems) with the juice of two limes, two tbs of sugar and a shot of light rum. Marinade eight cleaned jumbo shrimp for two hours in fridge or overnight (overnight is best). Skewer and salt shrimp. Broil or grill over medium high heat until shrimp become opaque (apx. two and a half min per side). Serve with black beans cooked with garlic, green onions, bacon and topped with a slice of lime.
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Old 04-05-2004, 09:16 PM   #14
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steve
are you sure his alk is low?
according to this chart (randy holmes-farley) his Ca is a bit low.
If based soley on the 390 ppm Ca, then his alkalinity is actually too high. I was under the impression Biggen wanted a higher alkalinity on the whole In which case the Ca can be balanced later on.

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Old 04-05-2004, 09:51 PM   #15
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ok.
its good to know were on the same page.
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Peppermint Shrimp:
Crush two tbs minced mint leaves (no stems) with the juice of two limes, two tbs of sugar and a shot of light rum. Marinade eight cleaned jumbo shrimp for two hours in fridge or overnight (overnight is best). Skewer and salt shrimp. Broil or grill over medium high heat until shrimp become opaque (apx. two and a half min per side). Serve with black beans cooked with garlic, green onions, bacon and topped with a slice of lime.
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Old 04-05-2004, 09:56 PM   #16
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Sorry for my delayed responses today guys, its been busy...

Quote:
Yes, getting the alk in place first will make it much easier to gain a balance between the two. At least in the beginning until they are balanced I would bring the alk closer to 12 DKH. Personally I keep mine between 11-12 all the time. Keep in mind that you need to be sure the alk is optimum before each Ca addition.
Ok, starting tomorrow I will begin dosing the Reef Builder. Looking at the instructions, it says that one level teaspoon will raise 40 gallons of water by .25 meq/l. It then says that I can adjust the dose up to, but not exceeding, 1 meq/l a day. Since my tank is around 40-50 gallons (with sump), then I could dose 4 heaping teaspoons a day which would increase the Alk to around 2.8 DKH per day.

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Keep in mind that you need to be sure the alk is optimum before each Ca addition.
What does this mean? Do you mean I need to make sure my Alk is around 4-5 meq/l before adding any CaCl and if it is not I need to dose the Reef Builder again before adding the CaCl? Would I be able to dose the Reef Builder and CaCl in the same day? The reason I ask is because the Alk will drop some in a 24 hour period. If I keep having to wait to dose the CaCl because I am constantly raising the Alk, I will never be able to dose the CaCl. Make sense?

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If based soley on the 390 ppm Ca, then his alkalinity is actually too high. I was under the impression Biggen wanted a higher alkalinity on the whole In which case the Ca can be balanced later on.
The Alk reading I gave was not 5.5 meq/l but 5.5 DKH. That is pretty darn low. But yeah, it is high if looking relative to the Ca reading of 390 ppm as far as being balanced.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:02 PM   #17
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Keep in mind that you need to be sure the alk is optimum before each Ca addition.
What does this mean? Do you mean I need to make sure my Alk is around 4-5 meq/l before adding any CaCl and if it is not I need to dose the Reef Builder again before adding the CaCl? Would I be able to dose the Reef Builder and CaCl in the same day? The reason I ask is because the Alk will drop some in a 24 hour period. If I keep having to wait to dose the CaCl because I am constantly raising the Alk, I will never be able to dose the CaCl. Make sense?
As you already pointed out the testings going to be a pain in the butt. What I meant was be sure the alkalinity is in the right range in the morning and if not add buffer. Later on in the day you can then add the CaCl without affecting the alk.

Until you get the alk up to the correct level, leave off the CaCl, it will just impair your progress until the alk is up and stable.

Cheers
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
As you already pointed out the testings going to be a pain in the butt. What I meant was be sure the alkalinity is in the right range in the morning and if not add buffer. Later on in the day you can then add the CaCl without affecting the alk.

Until you get the alk up to the correct level, leave off the CaCl, it will just impair your progress until the alk is up and stable.
Gotcha!

Ok, thanks Steve and Douggie for the much needed help. I'll work on the problem and report back in a week or two to see how I did.
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:01 PM   #19
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wow nice posts so I can use or not use baking soda as bupher I bought seachem ph3 and the aragomilk should I take them back, I test for Kh but do not test for calcium alone, I have a GH test but understand this is not tested in saltwater. Do I need seperate calcium test kit.

I just bought a master test kit. If any one wants my old kit ill give it away for shiping cost it is the powder, from aquarium systems came with instant ocean 55 gal tank.
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:55 PM   #20
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hey i maybe should have mentioned earlier that i to have the missing Ca Alk problem. i have only one lps. the rest are softies. but i do have a lot of snails and coralline but virtually no coralline on the glass. i do not use Kalk or any other additives other than calk (red seas balanced additive, its only in one part and its a powder, i would highly recommend it so far) yet my Ca Alk keeps dropping without any noticeable abiotic precipitation. i believe its the snails and the coralline. i realize that your setup is different, and having never used lime water and two part additives i cannot comment on whether or not your situation is normal. but you are definitely not alone in your line of questioning.
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Peppermint Shrimp:
Crush two tbs minced mint leaves (no stems) with the juice of two limes, two tbs of sugar and a shot of light rum. Marinade eight cleaned jumbo shrimp for two hours in fridge or overnight (overnight is best). Skewer and salt shrimp. Broil or grill over medium high heat until shrimp become opaque (apx. two and a half min per side). Serve with black beans cooked with garlic, green onions, bacon and topped with a slice of lime.
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