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Old 03-10-2006, 02:02 AM   #11
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Now its your turn to go back and read the posts. Where did you read this?
I thought saying "to say that there is no exception to ANY rule, is just silly," was general enough for people to figure out I was talking about rules universely and not reef keeping husbandry rules specifically (hence the reference to Galileo and Newton, two figures I'm sure weren't all that into reefkeeping.)
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:28 AM   #12
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I'd say unless you plan on upgrading your tank when that Hippo Tang gets larger.. I'd say you have reached, if not exceeded your max capacity. Not so much based on the current situation, but for when these fish all start to mature and reach adulthood, which will undoubtably be at least double in size or more, depending on which fish we were to discuss..

For what its worth, I agree about the rule of thumb that it is not gold, but it does set a decent guideline, especially for those who are less experienced.
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:28 AM   #13
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Thanks for the opinions, everyone. I did ask for them, so I didn't take them as being a *beep* as cal91666 wrote. I hope to upgrade house and tank in the next few years but you never know. As the fish grow I'll find a new, appropriate, home for some if I don't have a larger tank by then. I'll watch for signs of illness, stress, or aggressiveness. So far all are healthy and as happy as I can judge a fish to be, but they're still small.

[edit]
Forgot to mention, some of that 150# LR is in the sump/refugium. It's not all in the main so it's not as crowded as if 150# were in the main.
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Old 03-10-2006, 12:04 PM   #14
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I run a 90 also with about the same load in it I have a yellow , Red-sea sailfin , hippo, powder blue and a naso plus the cleaner wrasse and a few others smaller fish like Mandarin goby and a flame Hawk. been running about 7 yrs now a reef with a wet/dry and thats also a plus with the ability to handle far more bio load then a non wet dry. I also use a O'2 reactor and ozone so that give me a tad more area for bio loads. I'd say you are about maxed out now..
And to this day I have never seen a Huge tank raised tang. or any fish for that matter Now Honestly who has ever taken a say 3 inch yellow tank or even a Hippo and saw them reach 16 inches in average tank ? I have many tanks running and a 750 is my largest and I have had a many tang's in that and to this day after 5 yrs running the fish have grown and I'm not seeing anything getting overly huge the 3 in school of yellows I put in there as with all the other species have maybe gotten to 3.5 maybe 4inches ..
I have ran LFS and Have one now and in 37 + yrs I have yet to see a Naso that reached more then 8 inches in a 500 gal tank. Fish simple do not out grown their environment the space limits their size. As for ethical? I recall in the mid to late 60's it was thought to be unethical to keep them at all.. LOL the tang cops will get you. But to make a blanket statement like was offered you was and is wrong just shows what some don't really now about bio loads and demands. and 0'2 in the water.
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Old 03-10-2006, 12:34 PM   #15
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You bring up an excellent point about the max sizes that are listed in various places. I've never seen a Yellow Tang longer than 4" yet they are listed as reaching 10" (marinedepotlive.com). Maybe it's sort of like how a human can reach 7'6" (Yao Ming) but that's one in a billion. Average for us is 5'9".
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Old 03-10-2006, 01:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gatorfreak
You bring up an excellent point about the max sizes that are listed in various places. I've never seen a Yellow Tang longer than 4" yet they are listed as reaching 10" (marinedepotlive.com). Maybe it's sort of like how a human can reach 7'6" (Yao Ming) but that's one in a billion. Average for us is 5'9".
haha, so that means the only way for him to overstock is................all is fish are NBA player
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:03 PM   #17
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wow, who would have thought one thread could have caused so much talk huh?

IMO, if your aquascaping is laid out fairly well, and the tangs can't see each other all day long, then you should be ok. As many people have pointed out, as long as your filter is getting rid of waste properly and your water quality hasn't suffered from it, then you should be good to go.

In my 55g that I used to have, I had 4 yellow tangs (about 3" long each), 1 Half-Moon angel (about 5" long), 1 clown (8 years old & about 2" long), and a HUGE, I do mean HUGE Atlantic Sea Hermit Crab (his shell is about 5-6" long) and they all lived in there pretty well. I didn't have the best setup as far as filtration goes either, but the water quality stayed good and all the fish got along.

IMO since joining this site has been in general, heed adivse from members who give the same advice. Meaning, if 10 out of 15 people are saying the same thing, then it's a good posibility they know what they are talking about. We tend to forget that this is a HUGE subject area and variables are definately a factor in this.

I think the general concensus (<--sp?) is that we're all here to try to help each other and while some know alot more than others, we all know a little about something.
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:44 PM   #18
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Well, my lopezi was purchased as a 2 inch fish, it is now over 14 inches, this in about 3 years. So yes, if the are cared for right, they can grow to a very decent size.
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:12 PM   #19
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Wow, quite the discussion, and it hits close to home.

Gatorfreak,

I would concur that you are currently overstocked as am I. I would definitely not add any more and look into possibly removing a couple. You can be successful if you are committed to religious tank maintenance.

I have almost the same set-up as you and my stocking list (check out my info.) does include two tangs (PBT and sailfin) and I do frequent pwc and maintenance to keep them healthy and compensate for the overstocking.

I concur with Hara though if properly cared for all these fish can get big(maybe not to max size) regardless of environment. If they do not I would think they may be stunted do to poor care and environment. My PBT started out at about 3" and is about 6"+ and still growing in less than 6 months. My sailfin has grown at least 2" in the two months I have had it. I am prepared to provide a new home for the sailfin if the need arrises. So far no real issues.

At one time I had a Orange shoulder, YT and the PBT all getting along in a 75g before I upgraded and returned the Orange shoulder and YT to LFS during upgrade.

Just because we can does not always mean we should.

Proceed with caution and be prepared to intervene.

Good Luck,

Aaron
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:09 PM   #20
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Reading this thread again on a different day I have this to say. I think it's a good thing to have this type of discussion as long as it remains civilized. Without knowing what any single aquarist is committed to do as far as proper husbandry goes, I felt it was unwarranted to bring ethics into this. Saying this does not mean I am attacking the individual who said it, but merely making a point. I think it came off as an attack, but it was never the intention.

cal91666, I apologize if you took it that way, and I don't think there is a need of a back and forth "quote-and-reply" argument.

I have read several posts where people feel the need to tell others that, for instance, they are being irresponsible for keeping their newly purchased yellow tang in their 3 foot aquarium, and that a tang should never be in a 3' aquarium. Well, when its a juvenile and an inch and a half long, it doesn't need the same amount of room as it will in adulthood. I would much rather see a constructive reply such as "Congrats on your new Tang, but be warned and prepared that it WILL outgrow that tank in time and that you will need to find a bigger home for it eventually."

I, in no way, am an advocate for overstocking, but someone with unwaivering husbandry skills, may be able to keep a heavier load then others would dare try or recommend.

Once again, cal91666, no personal attack was ever intended.
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