Am I getting near max capacity?

[Gatorfreak]

I know there are rules of thumb on this sort of thing but there's really just too much to factor in to just have a rule. I recently added a Powder Brown Tang and a Regal Tang. So I'm wondering if now I'm maxed out, or close.

Setup: 90 gal reef, 30 gal sump, 150 # LR, Skimmer: AquaC Urchin Pro

Fish:
2 False Percs
Yellow Tang
Spotted Mandarin
Orange Spotted Shrimp Goby
Star Blenny
Cleaner Wrasse
Court Jester Goby
Powder Brown Tang
Regal/Hippo/Blue Tang

Also have the usual inverts. The Regal is just a baby (< 1") and the PBT is about 3" so it doesn't look full now but I know you gotta consider adult sizes. My guess is that I could still add a few small fish (like gobies) but that would be about it. Opinions?

 

[hackteck]

i wouldnt add anymore fish think you already have enough

 

[philly]

i s it really possible to put 3 different tangs in a 90 gallon?

 

[Gatorfreak]

Possible? I did it. Advisable? So far two people don't think so. The guy at the LFS said (famous last words) he has 7 tangs in a 110 gal.

 

[cal91666]

Not to sound like an a$$ here but IMO you've not only exceeded the limit for your tank but are bordering on unethical. The tangs will shortly either outgrow the tank and make a return trip to the LFS or simply not survive.

 

[ryguy]

There is no golden rule of how many fish you can keep in a tank. People read these rules and preach them having never seen any of the aquascaping, distinct personalities of a specific fish and overall size of the specimen at the time.

These rules are rough estimates and aren't always accurate. They are based on general teritorial concerns and your systems ability to filter the wastes the animals produce. You need to observe the fish that you have in the aquarium, if they are showing sign of aggression and being teritorial, then there is a good chance the new fish recently added is causing some serious stress and things need to re-evaluated. Without fully knowing what a persons setup is (ie lbs of live rock, quality of skimmer, husbandry practices etc..), it is hard to tell someone that it is unethical and impossible to keep that many fish in a system. Is it recommended? maybe not, is it possible, without some form of stress and overall health detriments to the fish? certainly.

Keep in mind, that when your fish get bigger, you also gotta start re-evaluating your livestock and their requirements. If you have juvenile tangs, you'll be able to get away with it more until they grow bigger and need more room.

Just because you have a 50 gallon tank doesn't mean you get to have 10" of fish EXACTLY! You may get some very "nice" specimens that aren't territorial and be able to get much more with proper husbandry techniques and equipment. On the other hand, depending on the fish you get, you may get less than you hoped for, even when others tought your list was a light to medium load.

I agree that you have too many fish AT ONCE.....way too many, but people gotta stop preaching these rules of thumb like its the end all, be all to responsible fish keeping.

sorry for the rant, I maybe in a little bit of a foul mood

ryan

 

[Hara]

I believe you are over the limit in your stocking. Whether or not you choose to heed warnings is up to you. Inevitably, the proof will be in the crash and in illness of fish. Anyone who chooses to imply that there isn't any harm, is fooling himself, and you.

 

[cal91666]

people gotta stop preaching these rules of thumb like its the end all, be all to responsible fish keeping.

Preaching?? ....... well maybe so but I'll guarantee you if you ask this person in 3-6 months what the outcome of this situation was it will be something that ended in either the death or return to the LFS of one or more of the mentioned fish. These "rules of thumb" that some of us like to use simply come from good old fashion EXPERIENCE.

Edited to add this as a point. 150lbs of LR in a 90 gal tank doesn't leave alot of room. Again speaking from experience. I have a 90 gal tank with less than 150lbs of LR and its crowded and VERY difficult to catch a fish to remove after being added.

 

[ryguy]

Preaching?? ....... well maybe so but I'll guarantee you if you ask this person in 3-6 months what the outcome of this situation was it will be something that ended in either the death or return to the LFS of one or more of the mentioned fish. These "rules of thumb" that some of us like to use simply come from good old fashion EXPERIENCE.

No where did I say overstocking was a good idea....you can re-read my post if you like. And no where did I say the rules of thumb aren't helpful. I DID say that it WAS too many fish, and my intent was to merely point out that this is still only a recommendation and not an enforced, hard-and-fast rule with no exceptions. Yes it is based on past experience, I agree, but to say that there is no exception to any rule, is just silly. And I'm glad people like Galileo and Isaac Newton realized that.

and I DID try to convey that there are also intances that you won't even be able to have the amount of fish that the rule claims you can have. It just all depends.

No need to paint me as the bad guy

 

[cal91666]

No need to paint me as the bad guy

Not my intentions at all. Unless your an advocate of this kind of husbandry. I'm simply making a point on this particular thread. We agreed on the overstocking. My personal opinion is to try something like this after so many have failed is not being responsible. You decided to "rant" when I stated the obvious.

but to say that there is no exception to any rule, is just silly.

Now its your turn to go back and read the posts. Where did you read this?

 

[ryguy]

Now its your turn to go back and read the posts. Where did you read this?

I thought saying "to say that there is no exception to ANY rule, is just silly," was general enough for people to figure out I was talking about rules universely and not reef keeping husbandry rules specifically (hence the reference to Galileo and Newton, two figures I'm sure weren't all that into reefkeeping.)

 

[Guest]

I'd say unless you plan on upgrading your tank when that Hippo Tang gets larger.. I'd say you have reached, if not exceeded your max capacity. Not so much based on the current situation, but for when these fish all start to mature and reach adulthood, which will undoubtably be at least double in size or more, depending on which fish we were to discuss..

For what its worth, I agree about the rule of thumb that it is not gold, but it does set a decent guideline, especially for those who are less experienced.

 

[Gatorfreak]

Thanks for the opinions, everyone. I did ask for them, so I didn't take them as being a *beep* as cal91666 wrote. I hope to upgrade house and tank in the next few years but you never know. As the fish grow I'll find a new, appropriate, home for some if I don't have a larger tank by then. I'll watch for signs of illness, stress, or aggressiveness. So far all are healthy and as happy as I can judge a fish to be, but they're still small.

[edit]
Forgot to mention, some of that 150# LR is in the sump/refugium. It's not all in the main so it's not as crowded as if 150# were in the main.

 

[Reefer Guy]

I run a 90 also with about the same load in it I have a yellow , Red-sea sailfin , hippo, powder blue and a naso plus the cleaner wrasse and a few others smaller fish like Mandarin goby and a flame Hawk. been running about 7 yrs now a reef with a wet/dry and thats also a plus with the ability to handle far more bio load then a non wet dry. I also use a O'2 reactor and ozone so that give me a tad more area for bio loads. I'd say you are about maxed out now..
And to this day I have never seen a Huge tank raised tang. or any fish for that matter Now Honestly who has ever taken a say 3 inch yellow tank or even a Hippo and saw them reach 16 inches in average tank ? I have many tanks running and a 750 is my largest and I have had a many tang's in that and to this day after 5 yrs running the fish have grown and I'm not seeing anything getting overly huge the 3 in school of yellows I put in there as with all the other species have maybe gotten to 3.5 maybe 4inches ..
I have ran LFS and Have one now and in 37 + yrs I have yet to see a Naso that reached more then 8 inches in a 500 gal tank. Fish simple do not out grown their environment the space limits their size. As for ethical? I recall in the mid to late 60's it was thought to be unethical to keep them at all.. LOL the tang cops will get you. But to make a blanket statement like was offered you was and is wrong just shows what some don't really now about bio loads and demands. and 0'2 in the water.

 

[Gatorfreak]

You bring up an excellent point about the max sizes that are listed in various places. I've never seen a Yellow Tang longer than 4" yet they are listed as reaching 10" (marinedepotlive.com). Maybe it's sort of like how a human can reach 7'6" (Yao Ming) but that's one in a billion. Average for us is 5'9".

 

[cooltankmate]

You bring up an excellent point about the max sizes that are listed in various places. I've never seen a Yellow Tang longer than 4" yet they are listed as reaching 10" (marinedepotlive.com). Maybe it's sort of like how a human can reach 7'6" (Yao Ming) but that's one in a billion. Average for us is 5'9".

haha, so that means the only way for him to overstock is................all is fish are NBA player

 

[robertfah]

wow, who would have thought one thread could have caused so much talk huh?

IMO, if your aquascaping is laid out fairly well, and the tangs can't see each other all day long, then you should be ok. As many people have pointed out, as long as your filter is getting rid of waste properly and your water quality hasn't suffered from it, then you should be good to go.

In my 55g that I used to have, I had 4 yellow tangs (about 3" long each), 1 Half-Moon angel (about 5" long), 1 clown (8 years old & about 2" long), and a HUGE, I do mean HUGE Atlantic Sea Hermit Crab (his shell is about 5-6" long) and they all lived in there pretty well. I didn't have the best setup as far as filtration goes either, but the water quality stayed good and all the fish got along.

IMO since joining this site has been in general, heed adivse from members who give the same advice. Meaning, if 10 out of 15 people are saying the same thing, then it's a good posibility they know what they are talking about. We tend to forget that this is a HUGE subject area and variables are definately a factor in this.

I think the general concensus (<--sp?) is that we're all here to try to help each other and while some know alot more than others, we all know a little about something.

 

[Hara]

Well, my lopezi was purchased as a 2 inch fish, it is now over 14 inches, this in about 3 years. So yes, if the are cared for right, they can grow to a very decent size.

 

[afilter]

Wow, quite the discussion, and it hits close to home.

Gatorfreak,

I would concur that you are currently overstocked as am I. I would definitely not add any more and look into possibly removing a couple. You can be successful if you are committed to religious tank maintenance.

I have almost the same set-up as you and my stocking list (check out my info.) does include two tangs (PBT and sailfin) and I do frequent pwc and maintenance to keep them healthy and compensate for the overstocking.

I concur with Hara though if properly cared for all these fish can get big(maybe not to max size) regardless of environment. If they do not I would think they may be stunted do to poor care and environment. My PBT started out at about 3" and is about 6"+ and still growing in less than 6 months. My sailfin has grown at least 2" in the two months I have had it. I am prepared to provide a new home for the sailfin if the need arrises. So far no real issues.

At one time I had a Orange shoulder, YT and the PBT all getting along in a 75g before I upgraded and returned the Orange shoulder and YT to LFS during upgrade.

Just because we can does not always mean we should.

Proceed with caution and be prepared to intervene.

Good Luck,

Aaron

 

[ryguy]

Reading this thread again on a different day I have this to say. I think it's a good thing to have this type of discussion as long as it remains civilized. Without knowing what any single aquarist is committed to do as far as proper husbandry goes, I felt it was unwarranted to bring ethics into this. Saying this does not mean I am attacking the individual who said it, but merely making a point. I think it came off as an attack, but it was never the intention.

cal91666, I apologize if you took it that way, and I don't think there is a need of a back and forth "quote-and-reply" argument.

I have read several posts where people feel the need to tell others that, for instance, they are being irresponsible for keeping their newly purchased yellow tang in their 3 foot aquarium, and that a tang should never be in a 3' aquarium. Well, when its a juvenile and an inch and a half long, it doesn't need the same amount of room as it will in adulthood. I would much rather see a constructive reply such as "Congrats on your new Tang, but be warned and prepared that it WILL outgrow that tank in time and that you will need to find a bigger home for it eventually."

I, in no way, am an advocate for overstocking, but someone with unwaivering husbandry skills, may be able to keep a heavier load then others would dare try or recommend.

Once again, cal91666, no personal attack was ever intended.