Ammonia issue in QT tank

[fishman]

I have a 20 gallon QT for my 2 new fish a velvet dottieback and a regal tang. it has been set up for about 4-6 weeks with the fish being in there for 3 weeks. I had about 10 lbs of LR in there before the regal came down with ick. So I took all of the LR out and started treating with copper. Now I have a .50 ammonia spike. I did a 3 gallon water change to get all of the fish crap and old food out of the tank. As of last night - 1 night after the water change I still have the .50 ammonia reading and 0 trites or trates....what would you guys do? Another couple of water changes or let it go? The fish do not act like its bothering them. Eating as usual and swimming around. I have an airstone running for extra oxygen. Thoughts?

 

[CBRGuy]

I am QT my tang right now. I do 25% water changes every other day or so. I also have a sponge filter in the tank. that I pulled from my display tank to get some good bacteria.

 

[fishman]

Yes I pulled some bio balls from my main sump and also may pull a spounge that I have sitting in the sump as well and put it in the QT tank. I just wonder if it will effect my 125 main if I do this though? I would assume not since it has been up and running for 1 year and 90 lbs of LR.

 

[steve-s]

Be sure you have the proper test kit for the ammonia. When using Cupramine, most test kits will report a false reading due to the amines used in Cupramine. Get a multi Test kit from Seachem or one that only reads for free ammonia.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

steve
I am testing with 2 test kits....one is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and the other is Fastest. I am testing the Ammonia with both of these. I get about the same reading on both. Also I tested my 125 main tank with both and then tested my QT tank and they both tested the same meaning I got the same reading with I tested my QT with both tests and the same reading with both tests on the 125. I read on the package and didnt see where it said anything about free ammonia???
Since I wrote the first post my ammonia has come down from .50 to .20....plus I have a few nitrates now so it looks like everthying is leveling out now...

 

[steve-s]

Since I wrote the first post my ammonia has come down from .50 to .20....plus I have a few nitrates now so it looks like everthying is leveling out now...

Sounds like it's working itself out which is good news. I am honestly not sure how well either of the test kits you have will fair with reading past the amines. I would however suggest you contact Seachem and ask to be on the safe side. They have an excellent customer service dept. and should answer your question honestly and quickly.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Steve
I guess I have confused myself...why would I contact Seachem? Im using Cupramine for copper treatment....is this who makes Cupramine? let me explain again. I am using Cupramine in the QT tank and TRIED using the Seachem multi test kit...it stinks!! The color gauge and level markings on the test kit are aweful. I cant tell where .25 much less .15 is on the scale???? So I tried testing it with Fas-test which seems to work better. Goes from very light brown to very dark brown color.
Also in the same tank I am testing Ammonia with the Aquarium Pharm and Fas-test. Does this make sense??? Maybe I confused both of us....

 

[steve-s]

Steve
I guess I have confused myself...why would I contact Seachem? Im using Cupramine for copper treatment....is this who makes Cupramine?

Seachem makes both Cupramine and the multitest kit.

let me explain again. I am using Cupramine in the QT tank and TRIED using the Seachem multi test kit...it stinks!! The color gauge and level markings on the test kit are aweful. I cant tell where .25 much less .15 is on the scale???? So I tried testing it with Fas-test which seems to work better. Goes from very light brown to very dark brown color.
Also in the same tank I am testing Ammonia with the Aquarium Pharm and Fas-test. Does this make sense??? Maybe I confused both of us....

I fully understand what you have done but what I am unsure of is will the test kits your using register the correct dosage needed to work. The proper dosage for Cupramine is 0.5 mg/l not like ionic copper which is just shy of 0.20. I sent Seachem an e-mail this AM asking these very questions.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

Okay, here is the e-mail I sent and Seachems response.....

Was wondering how well a Salicylate ammonia test kit will read past the amines in the Cupramine so as not to give a false positive? Specifically Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and Fastest?
Regards
Steve

It is likely that Cupramine will register a false positive on a salicylate reagent test kit. That is why we recommend our Ammonia Alert as it is very sensitive to detecting free ammonia and is not influenced by Cupramine or skewed by ammonia binding products like other conventional test kits.

They seem to have missed my question (seperate e-mail) on the test kits for the Cupramine so I have resubmitted the question. Not likley to hear back from them until Monday though. If your fish are otherwise doing well I would continue as you have been until you can get a better answer.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Steve
Thanks for doing so much research. I was doing the same thing as yourself. I gave it a chance after taking your advice and called Seachem. First of all they are sending me another color chart that has numbers that I can read....the one that I have now is messed up for some reason after describing it to the rep on the phone today.
But he did tell me what I can do as far as the numbers are concerned until I get the new strip...come to find out Im over the safe and OK zone according to the color chart. So Im not going to put any more in until the level comes down which I assume it will over the next few days. I may even do a water change. I think the level is around .8-.9...ouch!! The fish are doing fine....acting the same as usual. Would you suggest anything different?
Also I did ask him about the test kits you mentioned in the email and he said they will most definately give a false positive. SO I went and bought 2 Seachem Ammonia Alerts....I have a call into them on this as well as I think the ones I bought are defective as well!! Im not having to good of luck with their products...BUT I will say they are very good and patient with me. I do understand why I was confused on the test kit before though...The rep really helped. Thanks for the help and if you will let me know what you think about the above question....water change vs letting the copper fade on its on....
THANKS!

 

[fishman]

Steve
Thanks for doing so much research. I was doing the same thing as yourself. I gave it a chance after taking your advice and called Seachem. First of all they are sending me another color chart that has numbers that I can read....the one that I have now is messed up for some reason after describing it to the rep on the phone today.
But he did tell me what I can do as far as the numbers are concerned until I get the new strip...come to find out Im over the safe and OK zone according to the color chart. So Im not going to put any more in until the level comes down which I assume it will over the next few days. I may even do a water change. I think the level is around .8-.9...ouch!! The fish are doing fine....acting the same as usual. Would you suggest anything different?
Also I did ask him about the test kits you mentioned in the email and he said they will most definately give a false positive. SO I went and bought 2 Seachem Ammonia Alerts....I have a call into them on this as well as I think the ones I bought are defective as well!! Im not having to good of luck with their products...BUT I will say they are very good and patient with me. I do understand why I was confused on the test kit before though...The rep really helped. Thanks for the help and if you will let me know what you think about the above question....water change vs letting the copper fade on its on....
THANKS!

 

[steve-s]

I think the level is around .8-.9...ouch!! The fish are doing fine....acting the same as usual. Would you suggest anything different?

Unless your 0.8-0.9 is just a guess(?), I would suggest about a 30-40% water change with unmediacted water if you went beyond the recommended dose. 1 ml/10.5 gal (2 drops/gal) and then repeat the same 48 hrs later. That should get you at least close to the 0.5 mg/l suggested. In a 20 gal QT you should have dosed 2 ml the first day and then 2 ml again 48 hrs later.

You can easily add more Cupramine once you get the test kit but that would also mean you start from square one. Also remember that when/if doing water changes once you get the test kit, be sure the new water is tested before use to ensure you maintain the strength of 0.5 mg/l.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

Turns out the Fastest kit should be okay with measuring the Cupramine levels. Here is Seachem's response:

That type of kit should be able to read our Cupramine. The target for Cupramine is around .5 mg/l. However as long as you have a minimum of .2 mg/l it is effective and do not exceed .8 mg/l.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Thanks for the info Steve. I didnt see your post prev to this so heres an update. I didnt medicate the tank for a day and the level is down around .5-.6 now. Im trying to keep it there. Still dont like the Seachem color scheme but oh well...I looked at the color chart again the other night and I think I said wrong...I think the level was around .7-.8 and not .8-.9...they are doing fine to this point.
just for kicks I will test the Cupramine with the Fas Test kit and see if I get the same reading....their color scheme on the test indicator is a little better. Its in brown's..
Will keep you posted and thanks for the info..