Ammonia Level not dropping to zero

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philthefish

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
46
Location
Liverpool, UK
Hello all,

I'm new to this forum and am looking for a bit of advice......

I have a 55 Gall FOWLR which has been set up for about 4 or 5 months. I originally cycled the tank without any fish using Biomature (which is basically an ammonia solution)....once cycled I added a medium Clownfish and a small Yellow tang. After a week or so the ammonia level rose to 0.25 ppm and I could not get it to drop off. It stayed like this for about 3 weeks, and then overnight I lost both fish (neither had been eating well). I didn't restock the tank for about a month (due to cashflow problem!) but I was dosing with Biomature every other day to give a supply of ammonia to keep the biological filtration working (I have a large canister filter which is double the size required for this tank).

About 3 weeks ago I added a small picasso trigger and again the ammonia level rose to 0.25ppm and has not dropped off. I only feed a small amount once a day and there is no food debris in the tank.

Does this sound normal? The fish seems quite happy at the moment so I am not overly concerned, but how long does it normally take for the ammonia to totally Zero? Is there anything else I should be doing? I did a 10% water change last night and will check the level again when I get home tonight.

Thanks in advance
Phil
 
how much liverock do you have? also, what type of filter media are you running in your canister?
 
I have about 20lb of live rock in there (I know this is not enough to filter the system alone hence the canister filter). I have an eheim with the gravel size substrate (not sure what it's called) and bioballs. I also have a sea clone 100 skimmer (I know!!!...it seems to be skimming quite well though!)
 
it sounds like the tank never cycled properly and this will keep happening until it does.
 
That was what I was thinking Hara.....I shall keep monitoring levels daily and doing water changes when necessary.....

Anyone know from experience how long this will take (I know it's not an exact science!)?
 
I`m not much on chems. If you cycle with a small shrimp it should take 4-6 weeks(fishless)
 
My feeling as well. Your trigger will be stressed for sometime if he's the only bioload pushing the cycle.

I'd say have a friend or lfs hold the trigger and do a full cycle with some shrimp while also adding a bit more rock. After you've zero'd your ammonia, you can add the trigger. Otherwise, I think you'll lose him soon.

How are your NO2's? If you have ammonia, you'll likely have some NO2 as well.
 
Further update.....I got lucky on the way home last night. I stopped at one of my LFS (one I wouldn't normally buy fish from, but is ok for dry goods etc.). When I went in, the shelves were all being cleared and most of the tanks were empty. They are based in a garden centre and have been taken over by a new franchise (Maidenhead Aquatics). I managed to get about 30lb of live rock out of one of their display tanks for the princely sum of £5! I've added this to my tank, so i hope this will help with the last bit of the cycle.

I measured my ammonia when I got home following the previous days water change. My test kit starts at 0 and the next step is 0.25 although definitely not zero, the colour appeared half way between the two 0.1ish at a guess.

Although I don't agree with cycling with fish (As can be seen from my original post re using Biomature), I've heard that Triggers are particularly hardy and should survive the cycle. Is this true?

Phil

P.S. I will do a Nitrite test tonight and report back tomorrow (last time I checked it was about 0.1ppm).

Pic of my tank attached aswell
 

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Further update!.....I'm now starting to doubt my test kits!

My nitrite is zero....surely if my ammonia level had been 0.25 for a couple of weeks I would be seeing some nitrite (even if it was only 0.1)?

I have 2 different types of Ammonia test kit. A Red Sea one (which is the one I have been using recently) and a Salifert one. Both are liquid types. The Salifert one is very difficult to distinguish between 0 and 0.5 and that's why I prefer the Red Sea one......having said that, I've just used the Salifert one and if I had to put money on the reading, I would say it was zero.

Anyone have troubles with either of these kits?

Fish looks fine and dandy....eating well and not hanging round near the surface (a sure sign of ammonia poisoning), no over-active or reddened gills.

I'm not sure what to believe anymore!!!!
 
that is my biggest complaint with salifert...the color charts are too vague. (you should see the ph kit!)

maybe having a LFS do a test and compare results would help. Either way, you are on the right track now and hopefully will not experience more fish loss.
 
3 weeks on....time for another update.....

I have been testing my water nearly every day for ammonia since my original post. For two weeks, the ammonia level varied between 0.25 and 0.5 (has hit 0.5 twice), then about 5 days ago I did a test which showed ammonia to be zero (at last!). Nitrites were 0.1 on that day. I tested again two days later and level was back up to 0.25....I tested yesterday and it was up to 0.5 again! I have not altered anything in the tank, Picasso trigger is still in there as my LFS refused to take him from me as my water was not perfect....he said it might do more harm to the fish than letting it stay in water it's been used to (not sure if I agree with that or not). Fish looks healthy enough and is eating the small amount I give him once a day.

Anyone else had similar experiences to this? Why did ammonia zero and then creep back up (with no additional bio-load)?

TIA :?
 
Got home yesterday after stopping at the LFS to pick up some StressZyme. Added the normal maintenance dose......24 hours later Ammonia and Nitrites have both zeroed (hopefully this time for good!)....Not sure if the stresszyme had a major effect or whether it was just coincidence...........I'll keep an eye on the levels for another week before adding more fish.
 
Something is causing this . Ammonia just doesn`t go up by itself. Stresszyme is a band aid. Find the problem . Is your tank going through a mini cycle or over feeding or dead fish somewhere. I `ve never had a trigger but aren`t they messy eaters. Don`t band aid the problem
 
Something is causing this . Ammonia just doesn`t go up by itself. Stresszyme is a band aid. Find the problem . Is your tank going through a mini cycle or over feeding or dead fish somewhere. I `ve never had a trigger but aren`t they messy eaters. Don`t band aid the problem

To be honest, I use Stresszyme with most of my water changes, so it's not a case of me trying to find a quick cure to the problem.

I certainly haven't been overfeeding, I've been feeding a v. small piece of either shrimp or mussel once a day while the tank's been like this. I make sure the fish eats all of it, so no messy foodstuffs everywhere. Definitely no dead fish in there, and the last live rock I added was already fully cured (out of my closing down LFS display tanks).

I personally think that the tank never fully cycled originally and has just been through (a hopefully now complete!) mini cycle.

Anyone agree/disagree?
 
At last....zero readings everyday for about 10 days!! :D

I also got lucky again and picked up a CPR Bakpak 2R on Ebay for £35......the only HOT skimmers easy to get hold of in the UK are either Seaclone or Prizms. The Bakpak has pulled as much gunk out in a day as the Seaclone did in a week!!!

Just need to invest in another couple of PHs for the tank for more flow, and another 20lb of live rock over the next month or so.

Oh and I've also switched to RO water
 
Good for you. Your story is not uncommon with new tanks and anxious aquarists. As you know, your tank did not ever really cycle completely before you increased it's bioload. This cause a very prolonged cycle as your tank could never really catch up. I am glad things are looking up but have a word of caution...WAIT!
Now that your NH3 and NO2 are at zero, give it more time. More time without chemicals and additives to see how it reacts. Hopefully your tank has finally cycled and adding more livestock now could send you spiraling right back down again.
 
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