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Old 07-26-2008, 05:48 PM   #11
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Yeah... I've read the salt study. You just made it sound like there was something all of us were missing and I was hoping you'd share.

In my opinion, the point of the survey was to (1) advertise their services, and (2) give people some hard numbers on various salts using more or less consistent testing methods.
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:56 PM   #12
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Either way there were "loop-holes" in the study and, as usual, more questions than answers. Bottom line is that the debate ends up from where it started: Choose a brand that works best for you and stick with it. There is no perfect salt.
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:34 PM   #13
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I agree, salt mix seems to vary for different folks and at different locations. I used to use IO (I'm on well-water) and had consistent problems with cyano and algae. I decided to switch to RC and haven't had any problems. I have a friend that uses IO on city water, and doesn't have any issues.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:14 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kurt_Nelson View Post
...Everyone (rightfully) originally latched on to the fact that it didn't appear that the salinities were equal across the charts. The way it was presented, it appeared that the same samples used to assess how much moisture was in the sample was used for the charts. After a few folks on some other boards talked to the testers, it came out that it wasn't the case... the charts all do reflect the same salinities...
This was my point in my orginal post (From the original thread) and it still stands, I believe. The test was *never* intended to test salt vs salt using a SG as a control point. That is, they measured out a specific *quantity* of each salt placing the brands head to head, toe to toe based on what the reef keeper should expect on average in each vendors salt mix. Most folks quickly jumped on the equal SG/salinty bus because they did not read the paper, they simply looked at the pictures. If you take x amount of each salt brand then you measure for each element and other paramaters of interest, you then have an idea of what to expect, on average, for that salt vendors product. If you mixed to a SG, then you are not measuring for a specific quanitified amount, equal across the brands anymore, instead, you are skewing the results of the various tests. For example, if I have to add 2 and half cups of IO to get 1.025 SG and 3 cups of Oceanic to achieve the same SG (At equal temp), we can assume we have already given Oceanic more mix from which to derive higher numbers. That is to say, the more mix I add to achieve some given SG, the more trace elements, etc I also introduce into that vendors test. Thats no way to test anything side by side. In fact, what SG does one mix to? 1.024? 1.026? What temp? As temp goes up SG goes down, so its like chasing a rainbow. Using equal amounts of all salts (And if everyone reads, you can see how they derived using some basic math, what amounts to use) allows you to get an *idea* of what you should expect *on average* through out an entire batch of a given vendors salt mix. As pointed out in the paper, there was noted concern that some numbers could be skewed due to the mix settling, etc, however, if folks read, they are quick to see why the Co chose not to re-mix the salts. Nothing beats reading the study for one's self and making sure to get clarification on each point we do not understand, else we may find ourselves the victim of mis-information...Or worse yet the perpetuator.

The reason I posted the link directly to the PDF is that the facts are clearly stated and charted for everyone to see (You need both to get the whole story). Of course we can be skeptical, that makes for great discussion and potentially more refined tests in the future. Could most of us do better with our Salifert or Red Sea test kits in hand? Doubtful. I can't remember the last time I purchased a good set of beakers, much less submitted them to a good acid wash for contaminations sake. However, I believe like any other business that shows some gracious act of good will, there is always some hope of collecting on it.

Peace!
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #15
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This was my point in my orginal post (From the original thread) and it still stands, I believe. The test was *never* intended to test salt vs salt using a SG as a control point. ....

....Nothing beats reading the study for one's self and making sure to get clarification on each point we do not understand, else we may find ourselves the victim of mis-information...Or worse yet the perpetuator.
I'm pretty sure the horse is dead, but I'll give it another whack anyway!

You made my point perfectly about mis-information. From the conversation I've had with other folks (quoted in that other thread I linked to), indeed the samples that were graphed WERE mixed to the same SG. It WAS used as a control point. And you're right... it doesn't say that anywhere in the report. That's why everyone rightly assumed they were mixed to the same volumes of mix.

The fact that they didn't convey that point well (if at all) in the report was the reason for my response to CaptainAhab in this thread.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:31 PM   #16
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This is deja vu from the thread I started 6 months ago...lol.

From the RC thread.
FYI, from AWT:
... We believe there is some misunderstanding pertaining to the actual salts that were tested. The salt that we mixed up for the "yield" test was discarded after the data was collected. The salts that were tested by parameter were all mixed up to 53mS, and double checked with a temp-compensated refractometer.
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