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Old 04-28-2008, 04:01 PM   #11
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Thanks for sharing the video.

It is disheartening to see how our worlds natural resources are being destroyed. I've been an ocean fan since I was a child. My family and I spend more time watching Discovery, TLC, Animal Planet and the Science channel then anything else. The fact that we have oil companies making record profits in the midst of an economic downturn makes me sick. The fact that it costs my family and I over $150 a week just to get back and forth to work and school makes me want to scream. Our government has had it's pockets lined with oil money for so long that it will be difficult to get them to turn it around and look at other fuel sources. I don't believe that the technology for clean, safe and renewable fuel doesn't exist. The problem I see is there isn’t enough money in it for our government and big business to allow those technologies out. Our children and our grand children are going to pay the price for this for many years to come.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:26 PM   #12
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'What are the very large powerful forces with lots of money and political influence that want us to STOP sucking down oil?'

Well we've got the Al Gore crowd to start with.....


'As to definitive conclusions, I'd cite to international global opinion as manifested by treaties and pacts like the Kyoto Protocol. Defer to the experts as I always say'

I guess you get to decide which scientists are the right ones? I can cite as many on the opposite side of the discussion


'it's impossible to measure how much is due to global warming, chemicle change, hurricanes, etc.'

Where 'etc' = normal cyclical events within the history of the planet
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #13
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While Al Gore is very large (oh geeze, that was wrong), it's a tough sell that the environmentalists have lots of money and political influence as compared to big oil/business. The status quo is a very powerful force.

I don't decide which scientiests are the right ones, their methods do. Expert scientists who have worked in the field, and followed a strict scientific method have come to almost international solidarity on the issue, once again as manifested by International treaties and coalistions like the Kyoto protocol, or the United Nations panel on Climate Change. These represent wide swaths of the international demographic, not just interested parties from one geographic location who have financial gain or loss to motivate them.

It is my view and opinion that any "debate" left on the issue, is akin to the "debate" going on in the 70's about whether tobacco was really bad for you. I don't consider the outliers working for big tobacco or big oil "scientists, or experts" regardless of what their curriculum vitae says. I consider them (hmm... how to say this) "painted ladies of the night."

Twalcott it's apparent that we are not going to change each other's minds, so I agree to disagree, though I do enjoy a good civil discussion/debate. I'm not even sure we disagree since you've already said it is better to err on the side of caution. You're right, it's not like we can just go somewhere else if this whole "earth" thing doesn't work out.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:59 PM   #14
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Agreed, I'd hate to have to list the 600+ accredited scientists and academia who have taken the opposite view. My little fingers would fall off
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:01 PM   #15
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I personally don't see Al Gore as a very powerful person. I admire his dedication to our enviroment but I don't see him bringing about change.

Until we as a nation of consumers start making different choices as to where and from whom we purchase our "fuel" then things probably aren't going to get better. With fuel prices on a steady rise everything else we purchase is going to go up. We as a citizen body need to make the stand, along with your "people on the opposite side of the discussion". It is going to take all of us not just a few.

The problem is $$$$$ and until the oil money drys up things are going to stay the same, well except for fuel cost, they will go up up and away.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:11 AM   #16
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What's sad is that the world will be fine without us humans (in fact, you know very well the earth would be much better off), but we are only here on this planet for a brief stint of time, and the earth will be just fine when we are gone. The earth is millions of years old and we can try and screw up the planet as much as we want to, but it will survive and still be here when we are gone.

The true problem is that we are killing of species of plants/animals that will not make it back. We are killing things that my grandkids won't have the benefit of enjoying.

Sorry for sounding like a PITA (pain in the ...), but think globally and act locally.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:12 AM   #17
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I live in Queensland, Australia and I have recently been diving on the GBR. It's still fantastic diving! Sure the corals are in danger...but why not do coral research WHILE diving?
I am currently working with a professor and scientist at the University of Queensland to produce a DVD to send out world wide about Coral Bleaching and a simple chart designed for coral research. They have also come up with a way (while snorkelling OR diving) to do coral research with a non invasive and simplistic chart.
If anyone is interested, visit coralwatch.org
and any more questions - I have quite an extensive knowledge about coral bleaching and wouldn't mind sharing it with you all!

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Old 05-05-2008, 11:24 AM   #18
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Heck yeah I'm interested. Why don't you tell us what exactly bleaching is, how it affects corals, what the causes are and how to stop it? After "bleached" can coral return to their natural healthy state? Are some corals immune to bleaching and if so why?
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitt420dude View Post
Heck yeah I'm interested. Why don't you tell us what exactly bleaching is, how it affects corals, what the causes are and how to stop it? After "bleached" can coral return to their natural healthy state? Are some corals immune to bleaching and if so why?
Bleaching is the expulsion of zooanthellae resulting in tissue discoloration (white appearance). Bleaching does not mean a coral is dead since the tissue is still evident, can regenerate, and is a normal occurrence within the oceans and our aquariums. Massive bleaching, stress reaction, can compromise overall health of an ecosystem by depleting nutritional values, forcing the corals to utilize other nutritional means, and decreasing overall disease and predation protection by not being able to produce immunity responses. The causes are numerous and can intertwine, but always stemming from stress. Just about anything you can think of will stress corals, from temperature fluctuations and starvation to disease and predation. Corals that are more sensitive to change, such as Acropora, are more vulnerable to bleaching events.
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Old 05-05-2008, 01:28 PM   #20
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Zooxanthellae are algae which live in reef-building corals. They supply the nutrients that make it possible for the corals to grow and reproduce quickly enough to create reefs. Zooxanthellae provide the corals with food in the form of photosynthetic products.

Zooxanthellae leave the coral under stressful conditions; heat; low salinity caused by FW runoff; turbity (also from runoff), etc. This causes the coral to lose it's color (bleach) and appear white. Sometimes coral can come back from such events, but sps corals (e.g Acropora) generally do not.

I had this happen in my tank in November 2006 when I was out of the country for a month. I had a friend stopping in every 2-3 days to feed the tank and check on things. I did not comtemplate a mild week of weather so I did not leave a window cracked open as I normally due. Due the lights over the tank the condo got into the 90's for 3 days and so did the tank. I lost all my sps corals, had to frag my leathers and thought I had lost my lps corals too. Some of them did manage a miraculous revival.
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