Best artifical salt mix oppinions?
- Thread starter greenmaji
- Start date
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greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
ahh.. makes sence..
did you read it before making the desison to use Aqua Craft products or were they refered to you by someone?
did you read it before making the desison to use Aqua Craft products or were they refered to you by someone?
Royal Gramma
Aquarium Advice Regular
GreenMaji,
just to complicate this, read this study
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt_comparison.htm
just a lot of propaganda
just to complicate this, read this study
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt_comparison.htm
just a lot of propaganda
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Royal Gramma said:GreenMaji,
just to complicate this, read this study
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt_comparison.htm
just a lot of propaganda
seems like the same product is touted.. but less information then there site.. I was alot more impressed with the methodolgy of the testing..
Royal Gramma
Aquarium Advice Regular
I am not sure what your background is but from a statistical standpoint you can actualy create a methodology to fit your required end results then just follow the breadcrumbs to the answer you knew before you started. And an "independant" laborotory is paid by someone... wonder who? Who created the methodology? I would bet it was the product that is sponsored. Now if Julian Sprung, or Martin Moe, or anyone of that caliber and history created the testing methodology I'd run out and switch today
imo just propaganda
imo just propaganda
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
understood.. and.. I do understand statistics.. heck took it in college and did well... LOL
the sample size was wofully low.. for starters.. your percentage of accuracy would be horrible..
so yes.. its far from something to take extreamly seriously..
But I do think they were illustrating a knowloge gap that needs better testing..
I dont understand why synthetic salt makers don't hold there final product to the same standards as say any other product.. they can take test samples to see if there product is running to spec. what are they doing? harvesting it from the ocean! 8O lol
the sample size was wofully low.. for starters.. your percentage of accuracy would be horrible..
so yes.. its far from something to take extreamly seriously..
But I do think they were illustrating a knowloge gap that needs better testing..
I dont understand why synthetic salt makers don't hold there final product to the same standards as say any other product.. they can take test samples to see if there product is running to spec. what are they doing? harvesting it from the ocean! 8O lol
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
I did see a independent testing done through Advanced Aquarist online magazine.. I think.. Ive lost my links since reinstalling my browser (tryed to save the bookmarks but only snagged about 40 of them or so.. none of my aquaium related ones got saved )
)Royal Gramma
Aquarium Advice Regular
greenmaji said:
I agree, I think the problem for them is they aren't adding "a smidgin of this and a bit of that" to a 10lb bag. They must be making this in large quantities in sophisticated mixing applications. So a bit of tolerance on something as minute as the amount of strontium or Bromide in a 10lb bag is understandable. If it were clinical labs then we'd probably be paying $500 a pound
/shrug
I am going to go home though and mix some water.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
ok.. this is depressing..
any insite?
any insite?
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The "S-15" report is pretty old stuff, and I have not heard of anyone accepting it as true scientific testing. Just reading over it again, I have to laugh when they describe the marine mix as "perfect" which I don't think would ever even be whispered in a scientific "report". It reads like a commercial for whatever brand salt tested the best....in the same manner as the scientific hooplah for the Ecoaqualizer. If I remember correctly, a little stir was caused and people tried the new salt and experienced bleaching, but I don't have the time to dig through the archives of RC to where I read it many years ago.
On an interesting note, a Google search for "Global Scientific Publications" yielded no results other than ties to the S-15 report.....if I were a betting man I'd guess the group is/was fabricated to try and put forth an idea of credibility.
Instant Ocean remains the salt of choice for most commercial applications, and if their livelihood is on the line I would have to assume that the wheel has not been reinvented.
I'm able to get the 200g bucket of Tropic Marine for $50 at my LFS (thatpetplace), it's a shame other places seem to have to mark it up so much. That comes out to about .25 a gallon, and Instant Ocean (only 160g bucket) at $32 comes out to .20 a gallon. Hence the only reason why I can see "splurging" Tropic Marin because it is so comparable in price. I'd go back to IO without worry if I was faced with paying $80+
On an interesting note, a Google search for "Global Scientific Publications" yielded no results other than ties to the S-15 report.....if I were a betting man I'd guess the group is/was fabricated to try and put forth an idea of credibility.
Instant Ocean remains the salt of choice for most commercial applications, and if their livelihood is on the line I would have to assume that the wheel has not been reinvented.
I'm able to get the 200g bucket of Tropic Marine for $50 at my LFS (thatpetplace), it's a shame other places seem to have to mark it up so much. That comes out to about .25 a gallon, and Instant Ocean (only 160g bucket) at $32 comes out to .20 a gallon. Hence the only reason why I can see "splurging" Tropic Marin because it is so comparable in price. I'd go back to IO without worry if I was faced with paying $80+
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The "S-15" report is pretty old stuff, and I have not heard of anyone accepting it as true scientific testing. Just reading over it again, I have to laugh when they describe the marine mix as "perfect" which I don't think would ever even be whispered in a scientific "report". It reads like a commercial for whatever brand salt tested the best....in the same manner as the scientific hooplah for the Ecoaqualizer. If I remember correctly, a little stir was caused and people tried the new salt and experienced bleaching, but I don't have the time to dig through the archives of RC to where I read it many years ago.
On an interesting note, a Google search for "Global Scientific Publications" yielded no results other than ties to the S-15 report.....if I were a betting man I'd guess the group is/was fabricated to try and put forth an image of credibility.
Instant Ocean remains the salt of choice for most commercial applications, and if their livelihood is on the line I would have to assume that the wheel has not been reinvented.
I'm able to get the 200g bucket of Tropic Marine for $50 at my LFS (thatpetplace), it's a shame other places seem to have to mark it up so much. That comes out to about .25 a gallon, and Instant Ocean (only 160g bucket) at $32 comes out to .20 a gallon. Hence the only reason why I can see "splurging" Tropic Marin because it is so comparable in price. I'd go back to IO without worry if I was faced with paying $80+
On an interesting note, a Google search for "Global Scientific Publications" yielded no results other than ties to the S-15 report.....if I were a betting man I'd guess the group is/was fabricated to try and put forth an image of credibility.
Instant Ocean remains the salt of choice for most commercial applications, and if their livelihood is on the line I would have to assume that the wheel has not been reinvented.
I'm able to get the 200g bucket of Tropic Marine for $50 at my LFS (thatpetplace), it's a shame other places seem to have to mark it up so much. That comes out to about .25 a gallon, and Instant Ocean (only 160g bucket) at $32 comes out to .20 a gallon. Hence the only reason why I can see "splurging" Tropic Marin because it is so comparable in price. I'd go back to IO without worry if I was faced with paying $80+
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
nice fabricating credibility.. I think Ill aviod it just for that reason alone..
Im currious to see actuall findings from independent soruces now.. I think Sprung is out with his ties to the industry though.. too bad.. Ive enjoyed his writing over the years..
Im currious to see actuall findings from independent soruces now.. I think Sprung is out with his ties to the industry though.. too bad.. Ive enjoyed his writing over the years..
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
greenmaji said:
I think you will be searching for a long time. This seems to be the biggest problem in the hobby, there is no way really to do much independent testing. It really is expensive to do a controlled test of any kind, and the only people willing to fund it most often have an agenda as I believe is the case with the S-15 report.
If you think about it, this is also why there is no real answers on the use of sandbeds, and a myriad of other debates in the hobby. Dr. Rob Toonen has done some DSB testing, but also seemed to not be elaborate enough and gave very inconclusive results...but he was only able to do so because he got a small grant from the University of Hawaii where he is the head of the Institute of Marine Biology.
Coupled with research, the lack of funds is also the reason why there is not as much captive breeding/propagation programs around. The need is there, but it is a very expensive (and labor intensive) program that is difficult to sustain.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Im getting the drift now HoopsGuru..
So.. what happens if you get a bad bucket of salt? return it? contact the manifacture?
Thanks..
What I mean by bad bucket would be a dangeriously high PH when mixed.. or basicly something you couldnt just add a little of this or that to fix..
So.. what happens if you get a bad bucket of salt? return it? contact the manifacture?
Thanks..
What I mean by bad bucket would be a dangeriously high PH when mixed.. or basicly something you couldnt just add a little of this or that to fix..
HoopsGuru
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Well, since I have direct experience, I will go into my own nightmare.
I used a particular brand of salt since I entered the hobby (Instant Ocean). I went through that many buckets it became typical to just open the new bucket and mix my water to the desired temp and salinty and run it for 24hrs before adding it to the tank.
I did a small water change with a new bucket and noticed the tank reacted funny. I did the typical ammonia/nitrite testing and when all came back zero feared a contaminant and quickly mixed a larger change and proceeded to do it. Well, to be blunt, most everything that was a coral "melted" in front of me and I lost most of my fish either immediately or in the following weeks/months from the damage. I immediately did a wider scope of testing and found that the alkalinity would not register using my titration test (I gave up at 50 drips) and the PH was way off as well.
I contacted IO and spoke directly to the owner and they sent a new bucket and a label to return the rest of my bucket. He would not return my phone calls or emails after that regarding the results of what exactly happened.
Its irrelevant though, and aside from the crappy attitude he showed towards me, I can't say that could do much more than what they did. I assume he did not contact or reply to me because it was probably thought I would sue for the replacement or costs of my livestock. I didn't blame them though because I could have and should have tested, and should have had the common sense something will always escape quality control no matter what the reputation of the company or how many brands you try. I suppose that is the moral of my rambling.
I used a particular brand of salt since I entered the hobby (Instant Ocean). I went through that many buckets it became typical to just open the new bucket and mix my water to the desired temp and salinty and run it for 24hrs before adding it to the tank.
I did a small water change with a new bucket and noticed the tank reacted funny. I did the typical ammonia/nitrite testing and when all came back zero feared a contaminant and quickly mixed a larger change and proceeded to do it. Well, to be blunt, most everything that was a coral "melted" in front of me and I lost most of my fish either immediately or in the following weeks/months from the damage. I immediately did a wider scope of testing and found that the alkalinity would not register using my titration test (I gave up at 50 drips) and the PH was way off as well.
I contacted IO and spoke directly to the owner and they sent a new bucket and a label to return the rest of my bucket. He would not return my phone calls or emails after that regarding the results of what exactly happened.
Its irrelevant though, and aside from the crappy attitude he showed towards me, I can't say that could do much more than what they did. I assume he did not contact or reply to me because it was probably thought I would sue for the replacement or costs of my livestock. I didn't blame them though because I could have and should have tested, and should have had the common sense something will always escape quality control no matter what the reputation of the company or how many brands you try. I suppose that is the moral of my rambling.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Sorry to hear about your bad experiance Hoops..
Now that it has happened.. what peramiters would you suggest testing when a new bucket or bag of salt is opened?
any of the heavy metals?
thanks..
Now that it has happened.. what peramiters would you suggest testing when a new bucket or bag of salt is opened?
any of the heavy metals?
thanks..
Royal Gramma
Aquarium Advice Regular
Wow Hoops
May I ask how long ago was that? Has the system possibly improved by now?
Greenmaji,
I finally mixed my pwc water yesterday morning and got up this morning and tested my CA on the Tropic Marin... I was not impressed with the 310 I got. I didn't get to test PH or Alk, I will do that when I get back home tonight. I used A Profi Salifert CA test kit. I do have my tank at 420 through Kalkwasser dosing, but that was indeed an unimpressive CA reading.
Mark
May I ask how long ago was that? Has the system possibly improved by now?
Greenmaji,
I finally mixed my pwc water yesterday morning and got up this morning and tested my CA on the Tropic Marin... I was not impressed with the 310 I got. I didn't get to test PH or Alk, I will do that when I get back home tonight. I used A Profi Salifert CA test kit. I do have my tank at 420 through Kalkwasser dosing, but that was indeed an unimpressive CA reading.
Mark
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
TY for the update RG.. yea.. I can see why you would be disapointed with that CA reading.
I have learned in life to go by your experiences both past and present; also disregard all manufactures claims and take with a grain of salt what a lot of forum posters say. Given that I don't use products that time and time again that fail and have recalls; and in the case of salt products that are not complete when I buy them and have to proceed and doctor them up to make them usable. The salt I use mixes up with 450-460 on CA not 350 and not 500-600 each and every time; that alone is selling me and not what anyone else says or claims.
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