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Old 12-26-2013, 04:33 PM   #101
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I'm not talking about decomposing algae. I'm talking about live algae.
What I'm saying is, you just hooked up your refugium and you toss in a giant ball of chaeto. Did your nutrient levels just go up? No. The only time I remove algae is when it's so overgrown that light won't hit all of it.



Using that theory ATS is a waste of time. I disagree. Growing algae is an excellent way of exporting nutrients. Disposing of it insures it won't re-enter the water column if the algae over grows.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:44 PM   #102
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Maybe we are just misunderstanding each other's position.
There are only a few ways to eliminate DOCs from a closed system.
Exporting them with water exchanges, waiting until tank biology converts them into nitrogen gas, or binding them with algae and chemicals like GFO for later export. The algae grows faster if you continuously harvest it, making it a more efficient and natural exporter.

I have harvested 5 pounds of algae from my scrubber every 6-8 weeks for 20 years. It works and it works well. Every time I throw that bucket of algae away, I have disposed of a significant amount of organic nutrients.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:49 PM   #103
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Ok...so, which will pull more nutrients from the water, a single strand of caulerpa, or a gallon ziplock full? Of course the ziplock full. The reason you remove the algae from the ats is because you run out of space. Wouldn't you benefit from having a scrubber twice the size of the one you have now? Why is it suggested to have as large a refugium as you can fit? It's because you can have a larger algae mass in it, thus absorbing more nutrients.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:51 PM   #104
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Ok...so, which will pull more nutrients from the water, a single strand of caulerpa, or a gallon ziplock full? Of course the ziplock full. The reason you remove the algae from the ats is because you run out of space. Wouldn't you benefit from having a scrubber twice the size of the one you have now? Why is it suggested to have as large a refugium as you can fit? It's because you can have a larger algae mass in it, thus absorbing more nutrients.

But that logic breaks down because of the fact we deal with limited size. Yes, an acre of algae (live) would be better than a ATS full, but who has that room? There is also a natural balance where the tanks nutrients will only grow so many square feet of algae, after that the algae starts to die from starvation and releases the nutrients back to the water.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:54 PM   #105
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Yes, but my point is, more algae in the refugium is better than less, providing there is food for it. If the algae is growing like crazy, why rip it out? Why not wait until it's growth slows maybe?
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:57 PM   #106
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Yes, but my point is, more algae in the refugium is better than less, providing there is food for it. If the algae is growing like crazy, why rip it out? Why not wait until it's growth slows maybe?

I can get behind that. It happens that trimming algae, like most plants, stimulates growth. So cutting it back is a good thing, just not too far. But in a ATS, you can only get about 80% of the algae at a cleaning. That leaves a layer behind that gets light exposure and really takes off again.

Good debate, hope we haven't bored the OP.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:01 PM   #107
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Haha you haven't bored me at all, great information and I'm honored to have two of the greats on my build thread!

While I have you here I have a friend in my local reef club that is willing to sell
me his bubble king mini 200 gen 2 skimmer that is about 3 years old but has a new pump that was replaced in September, he said I could have it for 650 since it is no longer being used. Is this worth the extra money vs just getting the reef octopus diablo 200 that I was planning on getting? Or is that even a good price for a skimmer that is 3 years old?
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:12 PM   #108
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Which Diablo are you talking about? If it's the DCS200, I think the Octopus is the better skimmer. If you are talking about the XS200, I'd rather have the Bubble King.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:19 PM   #109
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The xs I can't find the dcs in stock anywhere and if I was gonna get the dcs I would get the 170
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:22 PM   #110
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Reef Octopus Diablo DCS 200 DC Internal Protein Skimmer Reef Octopus Diablo DCS 200 DC Internal Protein Skimmer
I would take the Bubble King over the 170.
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