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Old 06-07-2007, 02:13 PM   #31
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That setup sounds perfect. I just wish I could run my overflows and returns to/from the basement or a back room and have that kind of setup.
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:42 PM   #32
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8O 8O 8O
WOW scoot...this is really coming together! It looks absoultly awesome! What a nice job. I cannot wait for further pics of the progress. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:01 PM   #33
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I found a guy who resells PFO stuff - a new dual 250W MH ballast, with bulb of my choice, reflectors, mogul socket w/quick disconnect, for under $400... that kinda seals the deal on lighting.

That'll give me 2x175W plus 2x250W of lighting, for a total of 850W of lighting, or 4.7W/gallon. Not extremely high, but I've been running with slightly less on my 75, so my anemone's should be pleased.

Not sure how I'll arrange the lights... 175 - 250 - 250 - 175, or 250 - 175 - 175 - 250, or some other variation. Ideas? The nice thing with PFO ballasts is that I just have to switch cables (and bulbs) to try different combo's.

I finally got the temp up to 78 today, with both a 300W and a 50W heater.
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180G build thread

180G All-glass with dual megaflows in a custom stand
AquaC EV-180 skimmer
250 pounds LR
160 pounds aragonite
Custom acrylic sump from GlassCages.com
2xPCX-40 return pumps
2x250MH 14K, 2x175MH 14K - PFO lighting, 2x65W PC
No-name 36W UV
Water General 125GPH RO/DI
Filstar XP3
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:31 PM   #34
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You are going to use one of the overflows are a CL? I guess you are going to cut a hole lower in the overflow box to feed it?

I think you should just do 3 MH's. I have 3 250's over mine and it is plenty. Not even sure how to fit 4?

You could always plumb a 1.5" and a 2" pipe up to the tank and they Y the 1.5" for the 3/4 bulkheads and Y the 2" for the 1" bulkheads.

Cabinetry looks nice!
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*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:42 PM   #35
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ellisz...

On the closed loop - no need to cut anything - the tank has 2 built-in overflows (All-Glass "Megaflows"). I can take the drain line from one side and pump it to the return on the other. Plus, the megaflow overflow kits are adjustable height - I can drop the standpipe for the close loop lower in the overflow, to make sure it has water.

2x175 and 1x250 isn't much light on a 180G. With the tank being 6 feet long, I can easily fit 4 MH's reflectors in there. PFO has all sizes of them, starting at 12". Even the 18" reflectors would just work (as I have just a bit over 6' in the canopy). With a closed loop I can get some serious water movement without an expensive pump.

And, I'll have circulation, even if one pump fails. I've always planned to have two pumps for this reason.
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180G build thread

180G All-glass with dual megaflows in a custom stand
AquaC EV-180 skimmer
250 pounds LR
160 pounds aragonite
Custom acrylic sump from GlassCages.com
2xPCX-40 return pumps
2x250MH 14K, 2x175MH 14K - PFO lighting, 2x65W PC
No-name 36W UV
Water General 125GPH RO/DI
Filstar XP3
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
On the closed loop - no need to cut anything - the tank has 2 built-in overflows (All-Glass "Megaflows"). I can take the drain line from one side and pump it to the return on the other. Plus, the megaflow overflow kits are adjustable height - I can drop the standpipe for the close loop lower in the overflow, to make sure it has water.
But you will limited on the flow just like you would on a return pump. Each overflow is rated at 600 gph. If you use the drain line on an overflow to feed th CL pump, I think the pump would have to be 600 gph or less. If the CL pump is pumping more than the overflow won't be able to keep up.

Quote:
And, I'll have circulation, even if one pump fails. I've always planned to have two pumps for this reason.
If the pump down in the basement stops, then the water level in the tank will drop to lower level that will be below the overflow. If this happens, your CL pump will run dry as it will no be getting water. I would drill a hole lower in the overflow side and allow a lower feed for the CL pump so it won't be dependent on a higher water level.

2x175's and 2x250' will generate a LOT of heat. Are you having any supplimental lights or are you using all MH's?
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*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:03 PM   #37
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I'm aware of that. That's why I'm looking for either a Mag 7 or 9.5, or a Quiet One 3000.

A Mag 7, with a 90 degree bend and 3 feet of head height will be 400 and change - a Mag 9.5 with the head pressure will do right around 600 (according to the head height calculator I used). If the pump is doing a bit more, I can restrict the backflow a little by adding a join in the return plumbing, or even a checkvalve, which would slow things up a bit.

Closed loop won't run dry - as I said, I'll adjust the overflow standpipe for the closed loop to be lower than the other. The standpipe that drains to the basement would run dry first.

Are you familiar with the all-glass megaflow overflow setup? Each one has an adjustable standpipe. As far as I can figure, if I have the closed loop overflow/drain lower than the other, the closed loop will always get water first.

Oh - and on the lighting. I do have a set of 4x65W PC lights I might use. Might, I haven't decided. With a mix of 10K and 14 or 15K lights on the MH's, I think I should be in good shape.

The canopy is built into a wall with 2 cold air returns, so I'm not concerned much about heat - I did a lot of planning for the aquarium when we were designing this house. Everything I could think of is covered. A drain in the floor in the basement where the sump is going, a PVC drain there too, a big washtub sink, my RO water hookup (which comes from the house filter), 4 outlets in the canopy, reinforced floor to handle the weight of the main tank, blah blah blah.

My 75G is fine with 2 MH's, with a single cooling fan - I can keep the water at 80 degrees, but I run it at 82.

I plan to add a couple cooling fans to pull in outside air into the canopy.
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180G build thread

180G All-glass with dual megaflows in a custom stand
AquaC EV-180 skimmer
250 pounds LR
160 pounds aragonite
Custom acrylic sump from GlassCages.com
2xPCX-40 return pumps
2x250MH 14K, 2x175MH 14K - PFO lighting, 2x65W PC
No-name 36W UV
Water General 125GPH RO/DI
Filstar XP3
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:48 PM   #38
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Not doubting your planning, I just dont think the CL will work? I am not a plumbing expert though so I could be wrong. I had a 75g with the megaflow and I have a AGA 180 with the dual megaflows. If your system is flowing with a return in the basement and a mag running the closed loop. The basement pump goes down. Water will drain to the top of the overflow assuming you have a siphon break ... could be lower. Now the the Mag is still running. Will water still be spilling over the other overflow? I question this. The CL does not add water volume, it just moves it around. If so, you will be fine. Other wise the overflow will be sucked dry. Maybe I just don't fully understand

I had 2 250's on my 75 with 2 exhaust fans and a intake fan on a basement sump. My office got pretty warm and that was where the tank was. I have 3 exhaust fans on the 180 with the tank and sump in the basement. I keep a stable 78 with 3 250's, 2x54 T5 and 2x55 PC. Basements are great for heat control! My total system is 300+ gallons so that helps as well. I am sure you can put 4 MH's under the canopy, I just think it is not needed. My electric bill is bad enogh, LOL

I am sure you will make it work though. Everything looks great so far.
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*180 gal Display, 100 gal basement sump, 33 gal refugium, 3x250 MH, 2x160 VHO actinics, zoos, some softies, LPS & lots of acros and other SPS.
*100 gal prop tank plumbed into main system w/ 2x96 PC lights and 1x150 MH,
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:37 PM   #39
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My understanding (or guess) is that with the closed loop standpipe (#1) set lower than the standpipe (#2) that drains to the basement sump, the #2 standpipe would break siphon before the #1 would, allowing the closed loop to continue cycling. Regardless of where the overflow point into each overflow "box" is, the standpipe is going to be the determining factor of when each side's overflow will break siphon.

If the #2 is set an inch higher (just for argument's sake), it will break siphon an inch's worth of water before #1 would.

It's worth a try Like I said, it's a lot easier to get 600GPH flow through a closed loop than pumping from a 16' head height. If anything, a closed loop would let me get water circulating NOW, before I have the basement filtration set up.

Worst case, if it doesn't work, I buy another pump and some more plumbing.
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180G build thread

180G All-glass with dual megaflows in a custom stand
AquaC EV-180 skimmer
250 pounds LR
160 pounds aragonite
Custom acrylic sump from GlassCages.com
2xPCX-40 return pumps
2x250MH 14K, 2x175MH 14K - PFO lighting, 2x65W PC
No-name 36W UV
Water General 125GPH RO/DI
Filstar XP3
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:25 PM   #40
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I've sent our home builder the list of equipment to order this week.

A EuroReef 180 skimmer, a pair of Gen-X PCX 40's, 150 pounds of base rock from ThatPetPlace.com (I have about 80 pounds of good, well-matured live rock to add to this), and the 2x250W MH PFO setup. If 2x175 + 2x250 is too much, I can always stop using one of the 175's, but with a 24" deep tank, I don't think 175's will cut it.

Now I need to get an updated quote from Glass-Cages for a custom sump - 55G, with a skimmer area, return area, and a good-sized fuge. It was $220 last time I got a quote about 4 months ago.

Going to get sand from eBay. I've bought the 30 pound bags of sand there a couple times, and have been pretty happy. Shipping from those vendors are far cheaper than the major dealers (8 to 10 bucks per 30 pounds). Going to get about 120 pounds, plus the sand I have now.

Oh - and a couple snails that snuck into the new tank with the couple rocks I moved from my current tank have somehow survived, even though the water can't be too great.

And the 6 jumbo shrimp I added to the tank are starting to fall apart. Ewww. I wish now I'd put them in a bag as somebody above suggested.
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180G build thread

180G All-glass with dual megaflows in a custom stand
AquaC EV-180 skimmer
250 pounds LR
160 pounds aragonite
Custom acrylic sump from GlassCages.com
2xPCX-40 return pumps
2x250MH 14K, 2x175MH 14K - PFO lighting, 2x65W PC
No-name 36W UV
Water General 125GPH RO/DI
Filstar XP3
Scoot is offline   Reply With Quote
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