Check out this research !

[Steven A]

I have spent most of the last two days completing research regarding s/w tanks. I got the whole libarys section on marines lol, and refered to my own books, internet and magazines and well I have some what started to really plan out this tank.

I visited a lfs and is owned by a married couple. They have owned it for 30 years. 8O . I began talking to the owner about his marines and he said dont allways listen to books etc ........
He has had them for 30 years and hardly any problems most of his tanks are only 10 gals they can sometimes consist of approximatly 5 common clowns or some even a yellow tang. To be honast his tanks look great.
I then asked him regarding equiptment and he told me he does not no longer use protein skimmers. He said they are not really needed.
He advised me to get a undergravel filter with two upplift tubes running of airstone/ pump. He also said to have a powerhead just for your rocks. He said rocks such as tuffa and ocenic are ideal.
he said for the gravel/sand to choose my self. I personally like coral sand, silver sand and coral gravel. That looks great! 8). He told me to get a hyrdometer and a marine white lamp light (25W) - (750 mm).
I would also keep my internal filter running as it was origionally a jewul freshwater tank. But I will dispose of these filter sponges and get some new ones.

So inconclusion it looks like I may have this ......
~ / This tank is mainly going to be fish only, however there may be one or two anemone's if these are succesfully I will add more coral life \ ~

36,12,18 inches 29 gals(UK) 33 gals (US)
Marine White lamp light
Internal filter.
Undergravel filter.
Tufa rock, oceanic rock (Maybe LR)
Most likely coral sand and gravel. (only about 1.5 inches thick)
Powerhead if I get live rock.
Hydrometer.
Heater
Thermometer
Test Kits
Salt
Declorinator

Well This is it so far, after alot of research,

Please reply soon.

 

[SkinnyPete]

Personally, I'd go with live rock instead of an undergravel filter. If you get 1.5 - 2 pounds of lr per gallon, it will do the same job (except better) as your undergravel filter. I would also go with sand instead of cc, but that's just me.

I'm sure these people know what they are doing, but if they have a yellow tang in a 10 gallon tank, I wouldn't hold them in too high a regard. Tangs really need room to swim and could get to about 7-8 inches.

Anyway, if it were me - I'd skip the UG filter and go with live rock and sand and get a skimmer. You'll probably have a healthier and better looking tank - IMO.

- Skins

 

[austinsdad]

I'd skip the UG filter and go with live rock and sand and get a skimmer. You'll probably have a healthier and better looking tank - IMO.

Seconded.

You sure that 10g at the LFS isn't tied into the other tanks (shared water?)

 

[Steven A]

I am sure saying that the tangs was really small i was not aware that they grew that big his must of been a juvi. To be honast I prefer undergravel rather than live rock. However I will want a bit of it. So that parts solved now what about not having a protein skimmer ?

 

[fishfreek]

First I suspect this LFS is refering to his for sale tanks. Of course in the short term a half dozen clowns and even yellow tangs could live within a small 10 gal tank but in the long run this is not going to be ideal for a display tank.

UGF dont work well with sand substrate as it clogs the slits in the under gravel plate and thus the required water circulation no longer exists. The marine lamp that was described while is fine for illuminating the tank for a fish only setup it is not intense enough to support anenomies or other inverabrates for the long term.

 

[Steven A]

Thanx for help Fishfreek, So what light would you suggest. i would prefer one of the same size i.e. (750mm) for the undergravel filter I was going to have a layer of crushed coral and then the sand I wanted so there was less chance of it affecting the UGF.
I would like to keep anenomies as I later want to breed clowns ( not till many years of experience though). LOL.

Please reply,

 

[Steven A]

And no protein skimmer

 

[PBirdsong]

UGFs BAD!!

 

[Jermz79]

If you put the CC under the sand in time your CC will be on top and your sand will seep to the bottom and clog your undergravel. Skip the UG filter like everyone says and go with a HOB type filter or canister filter bothare much better in a SW setup!

Skimmers - I'm a realtive NooB, but for the most part have done a lot of research myself ... this is one area in this hobby that is divided! Some will say it's absolutely necessary while others will not.

I have a 29gal tank ... 53lbs of LR, 4" DSB, 2 MaxiJet 900 PH's, and am running the Eclipse system 3 filtration and light system. My tank is thriving, well for a FOWLR tank anyway!

If I ahd to do it all over again ... I think the only thing I would change is the lighting! I would go MH for sure!

 

[SkinnyPete]

If you have your heart set on an UGF, I would suggest not using sand at all.

People have successful tanks with ugf's. They've been used for years, so I'm sure you'll be fine. I had a 55 gallon up for a couple years with an ugf and a HOB filter and it was very stable. I was away from the hobby for a few years and when I came back I discovered live rock and I'd never go back.

But, coming from someone who has run both types think of these things.

1. The slits get clogged in UGF - especially if using sand. I used crushed coral and I had clogging issues. Once the filter is in, it's very difficult to take out (since its under everything in your tank.
2. You'll have to clean your crushed coral when doing water changes, not really required with a sand bed.
3. You won't need ANY OTHER filtration if you go with live rock / protein skimmer. That's all you'll need. Forget about the HOB filter and canister filter - its not needed. You'll need powerheads, but you'll need them to actually power your ugf anyway.
4. Live rock looks great and comes with tons of life that will flourish in your tank (star fish, shrimp, crabs, urchins, etc) and will also contain pods which are a natural food source for your fish. YOU'd be able to get away with say 25lbs of live rock and 20lbs of base rock or even tufa rock, which is a very affordable, attractive filtration system
5. Don't forget maintenance for your filter. You'll need to replace the media in your HOB filter regularly - nothing to replace with lr / skimmer.

Not trying to come across as argumentative, I'm not saying that this way is right and your way is wrong - I'm finding out that nothing in this hobby is black and white - but, consider these things before making a final decision. Basically, in my experience, maintenance with lr/skimmer set-up is much, much easier - and, in the long run, possibly less expensive. At the very least, decide what fish you want to keep - they may require hiding places and rock work. It'd be a shame to set-up an ugf and an expensive canister filter and then have to buy 30-40lbs of live rock anyway.

- Skins

 

[StrongBad]

Just want to aggree wit heverything skinny pete said and have one thing to clarify or at least add to the discussion. From everyting I have read (though I am a newb) UGV's, cc, and gravel all act as nitrate sponges. I'm sure you can still get the setup to work just fine but are you making up for it with more work, Ie... frequent water changes, vacuuming the substrate, etc?

 

[Steven A]

Thanx for all the help every one. The tank is a jewel setup so no matter what there will be a box filter in it, so that doesnt make a difference because it will just be there. The current from it is strong so i will be adding another powerhead. What base would you recomend without a UGF i.e. coral sand, silver sand, CC and LS. Btw can u mix live sand with normal sand causing the normal sand to become partly live?
Also any one got any links for LS and LR MUST be able to ship to UK. As this stuff is so expensive were I am.

 

[fishfreek]

I have had equil success with and with out skimmers. If you dont run a skimmer you need to be very aware as to your bio load and the amount you feed and have regular water change procedures.

Yes you can mix live and 'dead' sand. Its good to use argonite based sand for your 'dead' sand but if you must use regular silica sand it wont hurt anything. Just try to match the particle sizes.

 

[Steven A]

My Plan now.

Jewel box filter (already there though but I will change sponges + add carbon :? ?)
Add undergravel filter also, with two uplifts tubes running off airstones.
oceans rock and tufa rock. Some of the oceanic in store was with live rock and has many life forms on it, I think, So I think that will be ok as I do not really want live rock. To much money lol
As I will be using UGF I will therefore have crushed coral wich I like now lol.
I have found a light that is the right length and specializes for anenomies and other corals.

In the end I want about 1 / 2 anenomies, maybe some seaweed like stuff. Crabs, maybe star fish and common clowns (2) and this other small one I like.
Its half pink and half yellow. Begins with G lol ..... Sorry thats all I know atm.

So that my plans. I think tank should be fine without lr regarding information I have just done using books and some peoples experience. Most people said that tank would be ok without lr if I only house the fish stated above.

Now I would like to use how often do you feed and water change. Is it as coman as tropical tanks. and how do you make water changes to a marine tank ..... ?

 

[zacdl]

No UGF. I think most people are saying no to it. They clog way to quick, and besides it looks crappy.

CC dont get either, get sand (reasons already posted)

Filtration is your LR, but you might want to get a little HOB for mechanical (to take sand out if it ever gets stirred up, catch some algea, etc)


Skimmer is such an opinionated issue, I wont touch it. I can tell you I dont have one and I do not have problems with my 30 (Other than that anemonae getting killed and making the ammonia go up, which was my fault for not covering the intakes)

 

[zacdl]

DONT get UGF OR CC.

Read some posts on here, you will be surprised how many people have problems with CC, and always end up wanting to replace it.

UGF looks so crappy, dont get one (If you are set on CC, if you get sand dont get one as it will be clogged)

 

[Steven A]

Ok no undergravel filter then its just I dont have money for live rock especially 30ibs of it. So it looks like I cant go marine :x

 

[Steven A]

I have done some more research and have found this. 20 ibs of live sand for an ok price. But is it really live sand ?

it says ...

Caribsea Aragalive 20lb

Only CaribSea’s AragaliveTM contains not just the broad spectrum of natural marine bacteria found in the ocean, but additional specially selected strains of marine bacteria as well. Aragalive helps control dangerous ammonia levels and reduces nitrate and nitrite. Aragalive creates a natural biological balance, and makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer


Price: £20.99

and .....

 

[Steven A]

http://www.stm-shop.co.uk/cgi-bin/s...and&SHOP= &PN=Sands_for_Marine.html#a140#a140

 

[Steven A]

Could I support common clowns with 20 ibs of live sand, tuffa and ocianic rock, and a mechanical filter (jewel box one desighned for tank of this size).