Curing dried rock

[mr_X]

why the sarcastic tone?

could also have something to do with the fact that I've been doing this for decades and know what I'm doing.

There's no sarcastic tone, but I want anyone reading to realize that just because you add a rock (or even a couple small rocks) from an established tank doesn't necessarily mean you will have a shorter cycle. Actually, the bottled bacteria states it will do exactly that, so it may have had absolutely nothing to do with the rock.

As for being in the hobby for decades..
I'm willing to bet you use absolutely nothing you learned 20 years ago.

 

[PB_Smith]

There's no sarcastic tone, but I want anyone reading to realize that just because you add a rock (or even a couple small rocks) from an established tank doesn't necessarily mean you will have a shorter cycle. Actually, the bottled bacteria states it will do exactly that, so it may have had absolutely nothing to do with the rock.

As for being in the hobby for decades..
I'm willing to bet you use absolutely nothing you learned 20 years ago.

Well the biology at play hasn't changed much in at least a few billion years, so I fear you are way off base on that assumption.
The only thing that has changed is the methodologies/equipment employed, but it is still the same basic principles involved, always has been always will be.

But why do you seem determined to "poo-poo" what I did or my advice regarding it?
You do realize that seeding a new tank/filter with material from an established tank is THE BIT OF ADVICE THAT IS MOST OFTEN OFFERED IN THESE FORUMS?

Should I just assume you have taken a dislike to me personally and will automatically adopt a contrary position to anything I post, because that is exactly what you have been doing, even to the point of contradicting yourself.

The advice I offer is always sound and based on tried and true principles.
It may not be the way you do it, but it is always good, sound advice based on firm science and years of experience.

 

[PB_Smith]

ps...
it wasn't a couple of rocks, it was rocks, matrix and ~2lbs of sand and mud that was very active with bacterial life, which I mentioned in my first post regarding this.

 

[mr_X]

I think you are reading me wrong. I was simply making a joke about old "methodologies/equipment employed" as you put it. I don't even know you not to like you.
I'll try to spell it out better next time.

 

[tomtom14]

You should aim for as many crevices and places for your fish to hide in if necessary and still try to provide room to swim around. How it ends up looking in the end is only defined by your own creativity and imagination.

So would you say I have enough cracks and crevices?


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[PB_Smith]

I think you are reading me wrong. I was simply making a joke about old "methodologies/equipment employed" as you put it. I don't even know you not to like you.
I'll try to spell it out better next time.

Fair enough
although I am using things I have had for over 30 years...

 

[PB_Smith]

So would you say I have enough cracks and crevices?


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It looks ok, but you will have better idea when you have fish in there.
One thing is to try to make it so water can easily flow around the rock without any big dead spots where detritus can accumulate. So if it is piled up against the back wall, you may want to move it more to the center so water can flow around the back easily.

 

[Bdonaldson]

I think it looks good. The more you can make it kook like their natural environment the better.

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[mrvincent]

Big buckets, big powerheads, optionnal heater, a bit of live sand or a piece of cured rock and/or Seachem Stability.

Wait 2-3 weeks, mesure ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to see when happens with thoses rocks.

It worked for me for rocks I bleached with bleach. After two months they were back in showtank.

 

[tomtom14]

Ok I'm using shrimp to start the cycle. Might sound stupid but where should I place it? Does it matter? On the rock or sand?


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[mrvincent]

Ok I'm using shrimp to start the cycle. Might sound stupid but where should I place it? Does it matter? On the rock or sand?


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Anywhere in a kind of carbon bag... Or in a net... The shrimp will desintegrade and pollute the thing... So when you get the ammonia spike, you can easily remove the crap. With a dead shrimp, ammonia should start to raise after maybe 2 days.. So monitor it, and remove the shrimp when you reach 1-4ppm ammonia.

Other people here will maybe give a better amount of ppm of ammonia, but in my case it worked fine with 2ppm.

 

[tomtom14]

Thanks i also have this bottled stuff should I use that instead of the shrimp or with it? It says it feeds the bacteria.


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[Sniperhank]

Return that and you can use that money for your first fish when you are ready or a nice test kit to watch your cycle.
The shrimp decomposing is all the food needed to build the bacteria base. Just toss it in old panty hose so it isn't a mess to clean up when you're done.


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[mrvincent]

Return that and you can use that money for your first fish when you are ready or a nice test kit to watch your cycle.
The shrimp decomposing is all the food needed to build the bacteria base. Just toss it in old panty hose so it isn't a mess to clean up when you're done.

Usually this boost the cycle process, but won't work without ammonia source. Depends if your rocks will leach ammonia. That was my case, so no external ammonia source was needed. The use of this product is optionnal.

In fact, you can replace this product by buying a small cured rock... Just check that cured rock for parasites, etc... This will seed your dead rocks with the good bacterias.

 

[jeffaquarius]

Usually this boost the cycle process, but won't work without ammonia source. Depends if your rocks will leach ammonia. That was my case, so no external ammonia source was needed. The use of this product is optionnal.

In fact, you can replace this product by buying a small cured rock... Just check that cured rock for parasites, etc... This will seed your dead rocks with the good bacterias.

Just like you said that ammonia is the primary source to regenerate and multiply the bb. You can do it a simple way like Sniperhank says or you can do it with complex options but they all end up with the same result. Even if you save 1 week to complete the cycle it does not really mean you attain the best for your tank. It will take months or years before you see the result of a good reef keeping.
Edit: The key is patience with lots of research and that's what the hobby is all about.

 

[mr_X]

I completely disagree, for the record. If these statements are true, what you people are saying is that you cannot have beneficial bacteria without live rock. That's totally false. You can have a completely healthy bacteria colony without live rock. As far as bacteria is concerned, the reason we use ocean rock is that it has low oxygen zones inside it that are a great place for denitrifying bacteria to grow, and we want low nitrates, so this becomes our filter. If you had absolutely no rock in the tank and had media that had low oxygen zones in it, your tank would function the exact same way.
Seeding, is bringing pods algaes and sponges to your dead rock by introducing a rock from an established tank- it has nothing to do with bringing good bacteria.
There are plenty of people that want no hitch hikers and use 100% man made, or dry rock and after a short time, have the same bacteria as any live rock tank.

 

[Fatboyfish]

Seeding, is bringing pods algaes and sponges to your dead rock by introducing a rock from an established tank- it has nothing to do with bringing good bacteria.

You do realize you're the only one in the community that thinks that?

Have you ever done a search for "what is seeding an aquarium"? All results from thus search will pull up info about introducing nitrifying bacteria via established aquarium items.



Good to see you X.

 

[BigRedsReefs10]

He's not the only person who thinks that, and as a matter of fact he's 100% right, there is absolutely no need for "live" rock as it all becomes the same in the end


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[Fatboyfish]

He's not the only person who thinks that, and as a matter of fact he's 100% right, there is absolutely no need for "live" rock as it all becomes the same in the end


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Sorry think you misread? I quoted him on the seeding definition. Did you miss that?

 

[PB_Smith]

I completely disagree, for the record. If these statements are true, what you people are saying is that you cannot have beneficial bacteria without live rock.

I don't think anyone is stating that at all, only that introducing some already cultured material speeds up the process


The term "seeding" is applicable and appropriate for both situations.

True using all dry rock will also ultimatly yield "live" rock as far as BB is concerned with less risk of introducing unwanted animals.
I can fully understand why doing this may be preferable in some circumstances.
But it is also true that "seeding" it with BB from a safe source will greatly decrease the length of time before the system can support the desired bio-load.
As I stated earlier, when you start from scratch with all dry/clean rock and sand, than you are technically "cycling" the tank, as it needs to proceed through the various stages or cycles until a good colony of BB is established and it usually takes 8-12 weeks if you also consider the de-nitrifying bacteria as well.

When you introduce BB via "live" rock, filter media, etc. you are not "cycling" the tank but rather "seeding" it with BB and hoping for a good colonization. The system does not go through a cycling phase, but rather a lag phase which is until the seeded BB can colonize the "clean" material to a point of being able to handle the bio-load.

If you test it, you will see that when starting with all clean material, you see a clear progression from ammonia>nitrite>nitrate.
When seeding with BB you do not see that progression, but rather will see signs of all types of BB working concurrently as they were all introduced at the same time. It is also cause to be more diligent about testing if livestock is present during this "BB colonization phase" as the water quality may hit spikes in all parameters concurrently.
I have done both and have very plainly seen this difference as well as the greatly decreased time frame before said system can adequately support the desired bio-load.
That has been an accepted idea/practice for as long as I can remember.

We used to routinely give customers a few pounds of sand from active, healthy tanks whenever they were setting up a new tank, and that was 35 years ago.

Now introducing live rock that is actually harboring critters, algae, sponges, etc. is also considered "seeding", but this time you are seeding your tank with different organisms.

Some prefer starting with a clean slate, some prefer to muddy the water a little, both approaches will yield the desired result and both are tried and true methods.

I honestly don't know why this has even become an issue, it is common sense and simple science after all.

are we going to debate about how to pronounce "tomato" next?