Cyano questions

[bodie]

Hello, my tank has some cyano (red algae) on the live sand. I've been reading a bunch of threads about cyano, but still had a couple of questions. I've been performing 10 - 15% weekly water changes and have even resorted to using chemi-clean. The chem-clean works for a few days, but the cyano always seems to come back. I use R/O water and I've tested for phosphate, but my test isn't showing high amounts of phosphate. I've noticed people suggesting to siphon the cyano out of the tank when performing water changes, but I had a question regarding siphoning. If I siphon the cyano off the live sand will I kill my biological filter and/or ruin the live sand? The cyano is only on a small area of the tank so I wouldn't be siphoning all of my live sand. Only a two to three inch area of a 30 gallon tank. I've also noticed a lot of people saying you need to determine "the source" of the cyano. How can I do this? As I mentioned, I've tested for phosphate and only use R/O water. What other type of "source" could be causing this problem? Finally, I've noticed people suggesting to increase the waterflow in the area. This could be part of my problem because I don't have strong water flow in that particular area of the tank. Why does strong water flow prevent cyano? It maybe a stupid question, but I had always assumed that if there was a strong water flow in the area, that it would only spread the cyano around the tank. Anyway, I appreciate any suggestions or info on my questions.

 

[lando]

I've been performing 10 - 15% weekly water changes

try 20-25% and see if this helps.

I use R/O water and I've tested for phosphate, but my test isn't showing high amounts of phosphate.

RO or RO/DI water? RO filters do nothing to remove PO4 from the water. That is the DI's job. What are the currnet PO4 levels in your tank and source water?

If I siphon the cyano off the live sand will I kill my biological filter and/or ruin the live sand?

No. This is a good practice.

I've also noticed a lot of people saying you need to determine "the source" of the cyano.

PO4 is maily introduced by two ways...water and food. What do you feed and how do you prepare the food?

I've noticed people suggesting to increase the waterflow in the area. This could be part of my problem because I don't have strong water flow in that particular area of the tank. Why does strong water flow prevent cyano?

I would add a powerhead to your tank to specifically target the cyno area. The increase in flow will prevent the cyno from taking hold on the substrate.

 

[seaham358]

What lando said!!!

When syphoning you only want to suck up the cyno and very little sand. Its hard but you can be done. I used to stick my finger over the end of the hose to control the amount of suction. You will get sand just keep it to small amounts.

 

[Jermz79]

You may want to try this ...

I have a 29gallon and when I started it up I had two PH's at the very top front of the tank pointed directly at eachother! This created a nice strong crash current but the way I had my rock stacked I was getting very little flow to the back of the tank!

So .... what I did was on my next water change I actually moved one of my PH's to the lower rear corner opposite of the one on top! When I was done with my water change and plugged the PH back in I noticed an immediate difference. I could see things gently swaying that were previously not getting any current! There is somewhat of a "whirlpool" effect but not very noticeable ... and my clown loves to surf the current!!!!

I have not (knock on wood) had a problem with cyano or any algea for that matter, so this may have been the key!

 

[pearsont74]

just get this and it will rid you of your red slime
http://www.petsolutions.com/Red+Slime+Remover-I-90810010-I-C-37-C-.aspx

all that other stuff is fine and good but i tried that and didnt help and i wish i didnt waste my time and money on the amount of water changes and just got this
the PH definently doesnt make a different other then moving the cyano to a location that doenst have as much flow - no offence guys but these suggestions are old

 

[lando]

No one is debating the issue of Red SLime Remover riding your tank of cyno. I am sure it works jut fine. However, it is Red Slime REMOVER, not Red Slime PREVENTER. If the source of the cyno is not identified and corrected it will come back.

no offence guys but these suggestions are old

You say old, I say tried and true. I guess we will have to wait and see whose methods work better in the long run...although I already have a good idea

 

[seaham358]

pearsont74,
I have heard Red slime remover works well for the short term.. A lot of us offer advice that is chemical free so there is no chance of effecting any corals or inverts, fish.
There is a reason that cyno grows and you need to figure out what it is and fix it. Nothing good happens fast in the hobby, only bad things happen fast. You will see.
One of the keys is to syphon it out first that way it does not blow around, then add more flow so it does not have a chance to take hold.. Again you need to find the source of the problem.

And as always we only offer advice, so you can either take it or leave it.
I see you just completed your cycle on 6/14/05 thats good, I hope all goes well over the long run.

 

[schoeplein]

The pure factor of cyano development in my tank can be blamed soley on temperature swings...... I've stabilized my temp even more so, 79-81°F, and my cyano is slowly fading -- no longer red, but a pinkish/orangish color that's dissipating.

...when I first setup my tank it had cyano real bad -- killed the lights for an entire week (only LR and a couple damsels at the time) and that obviously killed it off...

But I can definitely, matter-of-fact, say that its based on temperature swings.

Why do we say increase the flow to the area? Allows beneficial bacteria to get to the area and its difficult for the stuff to grow in high flow.

Why do we say check PO4? ..cuz these cause your fish to die and some say it can be attributed to cyano growth (I'm skeptical).

Why do we say water changes? To help clean out your water, dillute all of your dissolved solids so there isn't as much of a supply for negative bacteria/algae. Why do you do water changes otherwise?...

Why do they say syphon it out? Well, I don't really see the point of this other than to clean your sandbed of detritus if you have a poor cleanupcrew as sucking the cyano causes it to break and latch onto your sand releasing its filth all over the tank.

Natural progression and a stable tank keeps the cyano away... 8)

...and I seriously wish people would stop sporting medicinal additives. Why why why when you can do it for free?? Not to mention potential side-effects.... There's no lazy, cure-all in this hobby.

 

[pearsont74]

as much as i would love to rip into these statements, i wont...

bodie - use this info as advise and do what you think will work best and will resolve your issue

 

[lando]

Why do we say check PO4? ..cuz these cause your fish to die and some say it can be attributed to cyano growth (I'm skeptical).

Actually, PO4 does not have a dramatic effect on fish, but it does on algae growth. PO4 serves as the main food source for cyno. Not sure why you are skeptical about this. It is a known fact that cynobacteria thrives on PO4.
Personally, I have used Chemi-clean with great results and have advocated it's use in removing cyno from a tank. But, like I mentioned, identifying and correcting the source of the cyno is paramount. If you use a chemical to remove cyno from the tank and use the techniques listed to prevent it from coming back you should just fine.

 

[MT79]

as much as i would love to rip into these statements, i wont...

Please do. Enlighten us Pearsont74.

Allows beneficial bacteria to get to the area and its difficult for the stuff to grow in high flow.

Cyano bacteria feeds off MANY things. Light, inorganics ie. nitrate, PO4, and organic compounds ie-CO2. Obviously areas w/ low flow have low oxygen levels and increased CO2 levels. Viola! Using chemicals is like placing a band aid on a stab wound. You also run the risk of killing beneficial bacteria as well and causing a tank crash. Beating cyano can be done, but first you must understand the processes it involves(I'm still learning the finer points myself). This is where "the men are separated from the boys" IMO.

 

[MT79]

The pure factor of cyano development in my tank can be blamed soley on temperature swings......

That may be what triggers it, but an underlying abundance of nutrients fuels it. There is no one "sole" cause except PO4 in most cases.

 

[MT79]

Why do they say syphon it out? Well, I don't really see the point of this other than to clean your sandbed of detritus if you have a poor cleanupcrew

Cyano will bind nutrients within itself. By removing the cyano you are also removing nutrients from the tank. A great first step in a cyano attack plan.

Why do we say check PO4? ..cuz these cause your fish to die and some say it can be attributed to cyano growth (I'm skeptical).

"only in the last five or 10 years that phosphate (PO4) levels have been viewed in a similar light. Although it’s not yet been shown to have a harmful effect on fishes, phosphate can decrease the calcification rate of corals and makes algae grow at a phenomenal rate." from www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk

 

[schoeplein]

My only skepticism for PO4 and cyano is that it can exist in a tank and flourish when PO4 are -5000 PPM (/sarcasm).

I'm just spotting information from a fairly stable tank, and offering my personal experience as advice. My water params are perfect pH - 8.2, NO2 - 0, NO3 - <20, PO4 - 0, salinity 1.024. I'm three days into my counterattack (temp stabilization only) and almost clear. I haven't adjusted *anything* else. I'm not vacuuming it out, not doing excessive water-changes......

...you can tell me I'm wrong, but apparently I'm doing something right. 8)

 

[MT79]

My only skepticism for PO4 and cyano is that it can exist in a tank and flourish when PO4 are -5000 PPM

As said, it utilizes many different energy sources, most commonly PO4 in aquaria. If it was not so damn adaptable we would not be here-literally. Earth's atmosphere would be toxic to us. Oxygen is a by product of cyano which was one of the first living things that inhabited the earth. Allowing for us to come along later.

you can tell me I'm wrong

Well, that was not my intended goal. What I intended was to spur you on to learn some more on your own to further your knowledge. FWIW, temp fluctuations will trigger cyano. But if you take care of what fuels it, there will not be a problem.
Say in a year from now you have $100's if not $1000's worth of coral and there is a heat issue. Those coral could be in trouble fast due to being over grown and blocked from light, etc. by cyano. By eliminating the fuel source you eliminate the risk. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

 

[lando]

My only skepticism for PO4 and cyano is that it can exist in a tank and flourish when PO4 are -5000 PPM (/sarcasm).

It is very possible that a tank may appear to have very low/no levels of PO4 and still have cyno. This is due to the cyno sucking up the nutrient and removing it from the water. There is still enough to feed the bacteria.

 

[bodie]

Wow! I appreciate all the feedback and debating. I'm definitely going to add another PH in that area to improve my water flow. I just recently installed a chiller on my tank, but so far the cyano is still coming back. I realize that stable temp will not cure cyano, but hopefully it will hep prevent it. And I suppose I am going to try and siphon my live sand. I'm still a little hesitant because I've never done it before. I didn't realize that my water needed to be D/I to remove phosphates. I've been using R/O water from Wal-Mart, but I don't think it's D/I. I'll have to make sure I get the right kind.

 

[seaham358]

they dont sell DI water at the walmart near me, just RO water.
Have you tested for phosphates in your tank and top off water?? This post is getting long so I dont remember...

 

[bodie]

I tested for phosphates in my tank and the test showed that there was some phosphate in the water. I can't remember the exact amount, but it was the lowest detectable amount on the test. I haven't tried testing my top off water, but it's probably a good idea since I haven't been using DI water. Does DI water really make that much of a difference in regard to PO4? I mean, if I switch to R/O DI water will it really keep the cyano from coming back after I remove it from the tank?

 

[seaham358]

If you have any detectable amount of PO4 in your tank then its enough to have cyno. You can actually have cyno with no detectable PO4 because the cyno uses it for grow so it keeps the levels low enough so our test kits can not detect it.
RO/Di is the best out there that we can get and YES it will make a difference with the cyno over time.