Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 11-13-2013, 04:24 PM   #31
SW REEF 18+ YEARS
Community Admin
 
melosu58's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 38,249
I work for a large water municipality. As mentioned the chemicals we use to purify water are ok for us humans but not for our reefs. Compounds with nitrates and ammonia and different metals are what is dangerous for our reefs and fish.
__________________

__________________

SITE ADMINISTRATOR

You can view many of my fish and corals in my photo albums in my profile.

View my tank


AA Community Rules|AA TOS

Forums 101 - posting, accounts, basics
melosu58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:06 PM   #32
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Blenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
Don't want to bring out controversy, you are all correct.

But once you treat the water to precipitate heavy metals and make sure the water is free of phosphate or nitrate I believe it is ok, specially if those levels are high in your tank.

Anyway, Salt mixes are known to contains heavy metals contaminate order of magnitude higher than natural seawater.

I use reef crystals and on the bucket they say it is ok to use tap and the mix contains metal detoxifiers. I bet instant ocean guys know their stuff.

Of course test your water for nitrate before using.

Silicates and iron could also be an issue but a far as I know some people dose this stuff

Peace
__________________

__________________
Blenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:30 PM   #33
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Gregcoyote's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 8,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenny View Post
Don't want to bring out controversy, you are all correct. But once you treat the water to precipitate heavy metals and make sure the water is free of phosphate or nitrate I believe it is ok, specially if those levels are high in your tank. Anyway, Salt mixes are known to contains heavy metals contaminate order of magnitude higher than natural seawater. I use reef crystals and on the bucket they say it is ok to use tap and the mix contains metal detoxifiers. I bet instant ocean guys know their stuff. Of course test your water for nitrate before using. Silicates and iron could also be an issue but a far as I know some people dose this stuff Peace
Just curious, what study mentioned mined salt mixes or even evaporative salt mixes contain more metal than the seawater they came from? I agree the the instant ocean guys are clever, but I don't necessarily agree with them in all cases. Some communities have water that no salt mix can cure. Since we all give information based on what we are told, I have no idea how good or bad their tap water really is. The default position is to use something that is quantifiable across all scenarios, recommending RO/DI water cannot get anyone into trouble and since you don't really know what is dissolved in your local water, starting with pure water makes sense to me. No controversy intended, but it is worth discussion.

I am unaware of anyone in SW that doses iron or silicates (which produce diatoms).
__________________
Gregcoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #34
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Blenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
I agree some tap water is not usable plain and simple. Also have a look at the municipal water report. My municipal water does not contain chloramines as well.

Here are a few links. :

General intro to water very good and he recommends against using tap.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/

Salt mix study:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1

Silica in aquarium:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/aafeature1

Iron in aquarium :

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry
Those are very interesting readings
__________________
Blenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:56 PM   #35
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Gregcoyote's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 8,322
In scanning those articles, I didn't see a mention of high concentrations of metallic compounds other than magnesium. It does support Mr_X's use of any salt mix available and rotating them. Probably makes sure you are covering all the bases during water exchanges as the ionic balance of various elements changes from one salt mix to the other. I use Reef Crystals too and it has preformed fine for many years, as I dose the essential elements.
__________________
Gregcoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #36
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Blenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
Second link
__________________
Blenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 07:03 PM   #37
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Gregcoyote's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 8,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenny View Post
Second link
I agree some iron is needed for plant growth, but nobody I know doses it above levels already present in the salt mix. Algae seems to grow fine on the regular levels in salt mixes.

Same with selenium, which is a source of silica and silica levels help promote diatom blooms. Nobody doses it to my knowledge. I try to eliminate it from the water.

I wish I had test gear like that used in labs and water treatment facilities. Then a clearer picture might be seen.
__________________
Gregcoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 07:08 PM   #38
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Gregcoyote's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 8,322
I took this to mean that almost all metals tested fell below the limits of the testing equipment: Many elements that were included in the ICPMS results were below the test's detection threshold of 0.5 ppb for all salt samples. Accordingly, these elements are not included in the data and comparisons below. These elements were: Beryllium, Scandium, Gallium, Germanium, Yttrium, Zirconium, Niobium, Ruthenium, Rhodium, Cadmium, Tin, Cesium, Lanthanum, Cerium, Praseodymium, Neodymium, Samarium, Europium, Gadolinium, Terbium, Dysprosium, Holmium, Erbium, Thulium, Ytterbium, Lutetium, Hafnium, Rhenium, Osmium, Iridium, Platinum, Thallium, Thorium, and Uranium. Silver and Tellurium were below the test's 5 ppb detection limit for all salts. Interestingly, Silver levels for Instant Ocean and Coralife were reported at 248 ppb and 410 ppb respectively in the 1999 Atkinson and Bingman study. Gold and Mercury were below their 50 ppb detection limit, and Iron was below the 500 ppb detection limit for all samples. The tests for several elements showed little significant difference between salt mixes. The data for these elements can be found in the Appendix.

The evidence over the years IMO is that there are no commercial salt mixes that are lethal to any aquarium life.
__________________
Gregcoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 09:05 PM   #39
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Blenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
I never implied that any salt mix is toxic.

I only pointed that many studies have found some metal levels order of magnitude higher compared to sea water. It does not mean that those levels are toxic.

As it is explained in the first article we should not put too much weight to those detailed analysis as there are too many variables. We should stick with brands that are time tested.

The point I'm trying to get across is that treated tap water is also in most cases not toxic.

As I have explained in the thread earlier, topping off with anything else than to/DI or distilled is a bad practice because of concentration of pollutants over time.

But IMO tap water is acceptable for water change if its nitrate and phosphate are significantly lower than your tank.

You might say : why bother with this debate if you need pure water for top off anyway?

I see no big hassle in handling one 5 gallon jug weekly to the store close by. But carrying more water than that did not get done for me.

I would also love to have this expansive test equipment to test a batch of saltwater with tap vs with RO/DI! .
__________________
Blenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 10:09 PM   #40
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Rmckoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by carey View Post
Its worth the investment without a doubt. I wouldnt add the high tds tap water to a system at all, not top offs or water changes. Doing one and not the other is just silly, it makes no sense. If you go to the trouble of adding ro.di water for one thing and then add tap water for the other you are wasting your money on the ro/di water. You can get a cheap ro/di unit for about $90 on ebay that is portable and a great starter solution, I myself went that route until i was certain I was going to stay in the hobby, then invested in a $180 unit. There really is no way to get around it, tap water in the long run is just not good. If you are doing corals at all then its needed, if its fish only, well, some people dont care about the total dissolved solids they are introducing to the tank as its only fish. lol But if the end goal is to have coral then really really consider not using tap water.
I've been looking for such items at that price range and they seam to either have to be plumbed into the water line or shipping is insane .
If you happen to find one please let me know .
__________________

__________________
Rmckoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.