ditch the bio wheel?

[unda_da_sea]

I have an Eclipse system 12 that i really like. It's been running for about 7 months and all the water params are fine except the nitrate stays between 15 and 20 ppm using API test kit. I have about 10+ pounds of live rock, 3 small fish, (yeah I know, don't worry, i have a 30 gallon waiting in the wings once they get a little bigger!!) and i change 2 gallons weekly(good water) and change the filter every 10 or 14 days. Would i see a big drop if i get rid of the wheel? how long would it take to notice as i don't have anywhere to keep the wheel other than a bucket with old water. I noticed under the filter in this tank there is enough space below i could put a corse sponge that would increase the anerobic filtration and also i use a hydor flow deflector and they sell a sponge that fits on it, or i could also float some bio balls. bottom line, is it the aerobic filtration from the wheel thats causing the high nitrates and would getting rid of it be the thing to do?

 

[roka64]

You could clean it on a regular basis or relpace it with LR rubble.

 

[unda_da_sea]

I thought about some rubble but there wouldn't be much if any light there. would the rubble accept that?

 

[Ziggy953]

If there are ANY sponges in your system they are part of the problem...I would get rid of all the man made filtration and replace the media with LR rubble. Nature knows best! I'm not a fan of the bio-balls or bio-wheel for a SW tank as they hold detritus and create as you are finding high NitrAte levels. I would also encourage you to add some more LR to your tank. 3 fish in a 12g tank even if they are small is a pretty large bio load for 10lbs of rock. I think you would do better with closer to 20lbs of rock and the LR rubble as your filtration.

Or just get the 30g up and running and add 35-40lbs of LR to what you have and you will be in better shape!

 

[roka64]

The rubble will host the nitrifying bacteria....that stuff doesn't care if there is little to no light. I also agree with Ziggy. I had a canister filter and was having nitrAte problems, so I removed the sponges.

 

[unda_da_sea]

no i don't have any sponges other that the natural ones that are growing. I just had 2 white sponges about the size of a dime appear out of nowhere. how cool is that! i also have a small grey one thats been around for awhile. I have aquestion about aerobic vs. anerobic. if i don't have these terms backwards, the aerobic is the bio wheel or anything that contacts air? and the anerobic would be anything submerged that can grow nitrifying bacteria? so if i put in a corse sponge that remained underwater would that help with added filtration but not cause the nitrates to increase?

 

[roka64]

Anaerobic=without air. I imagine a sponge would trap a lot of stuff and would need to be cleaned as often as the biowheel, maybe even a little bit more.
I have a few encrusting sponges in my tank that seemed to come out of nowhere, they seem to like it under rock and out of the light.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Without knowing exactly what the three "small" fish are, I'd say having three fish in a 12g tank is the biggest contributor to your nitrates and not whether or not you have a biowheel.

I think people's comments about "sponges" is in response to your comment about adding a coarse sponge in your hood. If you remove the biowheel, and add a sponge, you're kind of defeating your own purpose. Whether it aerobic or anaerobic, it's going to trap food/debris and add to your nitrates... more than your biowheel.

Personally, I don't have an issue with the biowheels, but that's just my opinion and experience. Your mileage may vary!

 

[MT79]

the aerobic is the bio wheel or anything that contacts air? and the anerobic would be anything submerged that can grow nitrifying bacteria?

Kind of. Aerobic bacteria utilize O2. They can be found on surfaces under water as well as the bio-wheel. They bio-wheel provides them more O2 to feed from, aiding nitrification, by allowing direct contact w/ air. Anaerobic bacteria grow in O2 deprived areas, like deep in LR or LS. These are the bacteria that can turn NO3 into a gas, allowing it to leave the aquarium. Many times PWC's are needed, as well, for sufficient NO3 reduction.

As kurt said, it would really help to know what kind and how big the fish are.?

 

[melosu58]

I`m also one of those that think that your fish bioload might be the problem. I have an emporer bio wheel that I dont use the wheel. I keep it in my reef tank sump in case I should need it. But as Kurt said the sponge is defeating the purpose. IMO remove the wheel, run GAC in the filter every other week and examine your bioload and increase PWC`s as necessary.

 

[roka64]

Hmm, nice catch folks, I have an Eclipse12, but that is just the hood/lighting/ph combo, but that is on my 20G. I guess that is a 12G and definitely agree three fish could be the cause. Let me check something on my hood.

 

[roka64]

My mistake, I have the Eclipse Filtration and Illumination System http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3867&N=2004+113765 on my 20G so I need to watch that in the future. Sorry about that.

 

[unda_da_sea]

well, i went and done it. replaced the wheel with some lr rubble. not alot though, as i want it all under water. i'll keep the wheel in a bucket of old sw for the time being. i'll give it a couple of weeks and recheck the nitrates and if i still have the same readings i'll do 3 gallon pcw every week(instead of 2). That would be more than enough water change for a 12 gallon. I'm going to keep running the cartridges though. if i change the filter every 10 days the cartidge is very clean. I should up my estimate of the amount of lr i have, i think it's more like 12+ lbs. I would add more but in this small of a tank i want to keep a descent water volume. I'll reply to this post in a couple weeks a nd let you know what the nitates are. BTW. i have a true perc, six line, and firefish. i feed sparingly, have some snails and just bought some small snails which should survive the wrasse ( i hope!!!). Ihope this works I don't want to crash my tank!!!. Thanks for your inputs.

 

[MT79]

BTW. i have a true perc, six line, and firefish

Definitely a large part, and most likely the cause of, the problem. The clown alone is recommended for 20 gal or larger tanks and the wrasse 30 gal. Besides being very overstocked, which will cause water issues as your seeing, aggression and stress is going to become a problem- if it's not already. Besides the clown and wrasse not having enough room, a firefish is too shy, and the others too bold, to do well in such a small tank for a long period of time. You need to rethink your stocking choices...

 

[MT79]

PS- You should put the bio-wheel back in place ASAP. You have too many fish for 12 lbs rock to process the waste. W/ out the wheel your most likely going to have ammonia and nitrite issues, which are much worse than NO3.

 

[unda_da_sea]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check the params each day to make sure i don't crash the tank. I guess thats why i bought the test kit, I'll might as well use it!!!

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Another one chiming in with "put the biowheel back". Unless you've got a super sensitive test kit, and test every hour... by the time you notice something going whacko in your tank it's going to be too late to do anything about it. If you detect ammonia, then your tank is cycling again. Granted, you can do PWCs to get the ammonia down, but that isn't going to get your tank recycled. That biowheel might, or might not, be harboring just the right amount of bacteria that you need to keep this tank out of trouble. I sure wouldn't want to risk it just to find out.

Nitrate levels of 15-20 in a 12g tank really aren't that bad to start with. Especially when you consider the amount of fish you've got in there to start with!

 

[Ziggy953]

I'll just agree with you guys....and point up to my previous post....put the bio-wheel back for now...the perc and wrasse are way too much for the tank...the firefish would do well in there with a cleaner shrimp and some corals....

 

[unda_da_sea]

I put the wheel back in. I guess I'll try 3 gallon weekly pwc first.