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Old 09-25-2005, 06:48 PM   #11
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Here is a great site that goes into detail the good and bad about DOC. What they say about DON is that it is simply is not around in natural reef aquaria.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php

"Organics also are often measured in terms of their nitrogen content, such as dissolved organic nitrogen (DON) and particulate organic nitrogen (PON). The same is true for phosphorus, using the terms dissolved organic phosphorus (DOP) and particulate organic phosphorus (POP). Table 2 shows the relative concentrations of C, N, and P in dissolved organic material. In dissolved organic material, nitrogen is about ten-fold less prevalent than carbon, and phosphorus is several hundred-fold lower in concentration than carbon."

And not to discount any beneficial or detrimental effects on ATS (I simply don't know enough about it to give a good opinion), but if DON is ten fold less prevelant than Carbon, I can see some huge issues in having it around in home aquaria.

The other site you listed mentioned that ATS is so good for releasing these DON particles into the water (somehow, but that still, from a biological standpoint doesn't make any sense to me) then these would cause huge problems in an aquarium. The website also goes on to list numerous detriments of DO's in water.

I thought it was an interesting artical to pass along to all interested. It shown some light on a few things for me.
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Old 09-25-2005, 11:09 PM   #12
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Couldn't it be a carbonic compound that yellows the water? (For argument's sake.)
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by greenmaji
From reading the book the locations of natural turf algae would be in costal areas the same as the surf that does the natural protein skimming.. isnt there a chance thats how its suppose to be..
If I am reading your thoughts correctly, you believe aquaria should model these natural processes. It's a thought, but the problem often lies in that aquariums are not similar to nature. The oceans are food rich and nutrient poor (due to the great exchange of water volume) while our tanks are the opposite.

In regards to setting up an ATS, in speaking for the average hobbyist....having a surge system is not the easiest or most feasible to fit under a stand. Surge systems also can be quite noisy and splash a bit. A sump with a refugium/skimmer, etc. is often much easier with similar results. My own use of refugia has also never produced the yellowing effect that seems to go along with the ATS system.
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Old 09-26-2005, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsGuru
If I am reading your thoughts correctly, you believe aquaria should model these natural processes.
Not exactly.. It was a thought about how coastal waters were naturally filtered in nature for natures sake ie. maybe thats why they evolved together.. to benefit from eachother... Im also quite ceratin that there is consideralbe bacterial filtration in the same areas in nature..

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsGuru
It's a thought, but the problem often lies in that aquariums are not similar to nature. The oceans are food rich and nutrient poor (due to the great exchange of water volume) while our tanks are the opposite.
Its my understanding that reef areas are also more food rich, nutrient poor and full of life then the rest of the ocean for a reason... that reason being those areas are being cleaned by more then open water.. the water coming back from the surf areas is O2 saturated and extremely nutrient poor, because of natural processes.. allowing much more concentration of life in a small area.. much more so then is possible in our tanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsGuru
In regards to setting up an ATS, in speaking for the average hobbyist....having a surge system is not the easiest or most feasible to fit under a stand. Surge systems also can be quite noisy and splash a bit.
I am not certian if your post is to me or to everyone else reading this?

There are many ways to design a ATS and ways to implement it.. the large serge system with pumps and electronics and such is one of them.. or wave buckets... There are ATS designs that are small enough to fit into the canopy (and are in the canopy) so size isnt really the large factor I think you think it is..
but there is going to be some noise regardless (from whatever method is used to create the wave motion of the water)... so your right about that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsGuru
A sump with a refugium/skimmer, etc. is often much easier with similar results. My own use of refugia has also never produced the yellowing effect that seems to go along with the ATS system.
Again.. I dont know if this is directed at me or everyone else reading this..
I understand the refugium.. It requires that the system maintains enough nutrients to keep the Macro algae alive hence it requires more nutrients to be present in the water to operate then ATS. Not saying that I would discourage anyone from using a refugium, My goal is to have less nutrients then what is nessisary to keep Macro algae alive in the system.. making a refugium inoperable..
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Old 09-26-2005, 06:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmaji
I understand the refugium.. It requires that the system maintains enough nutrients to keep the Macro algae alive hence it requires more nutrients to be present in the water to operate then ATS. Not saying that I would discourage anyone from using a refugium, My goal is to have less nutrients then what is nessisary to keep Macro algae alive in the system.. making a refugium inoperable..
I thought the point of a refugium is to remove nutrients from the system?
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Old 09-26-2005, 07:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dskidmore
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmaji
I understand the refugium.. It requires that the system maintains enough nutrients to keep the Macro algae alive hence it requires more nutrients to be present in the water to operate then ATS. Not saying that I would discourage anyone from using a refugium, My goal is to have less nutrients then what is nessisary to keep Macro algae alive in the system.. making a refugium inoperable..
I thought the point of a refugium is to remove nutrients from the system?
It does remove nutrients from the system.. by growing Macro algae and then harvesting it, your removing the nutrients that are bound up in the Macro alage. But a you need enought nutrients for the Macro to grow for this to work. Micro algae with intense lighting magnified by the flash from the waves can grow when nutrients are very poor, unlike Maco algae..
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