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Old 10-29-2006, 07:55 PM   #1
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Dosing copper into main tank

Admin please do not move this thread it is not a sick fish thread.

Sorry guys this is going to be a lengthy post so please bear with me. Now I have this 132g tank for 1 months, add a yellow tang last week and now have black ich. I am thinking of dosing copper into the tank. Because I have been thinking of doing this tank as a FOWLR anyway. No inverts or coral of any kinds as I don't have the time to look after them. Also I don't want to set up another QT in my house.

Currently I have an ocellaris clown, 10 chromis and the yellow tang in there. I mean I am sick of this, I have been very conservative only keep the hardy type of fish just to have this possible reef tank option open but the yellow tang still get sick. I might as well just do FOWLR, less care is needed anyway. I currently have some corals in my nano and even want to get rid of them cause am sick of taking care of them.

I have ALWAYS been thinking of getting a blue tang, kind of like a dream to me and I never dare to have one because they are easy to get white spot/ich. So I was thinking if I dose copper into the main tank I can have EVERYTHING I want (which is a dream come true) including the blue tang, butterflies (since can't keep corals anymore) etc etc since ich can't possibly exist anymore.

Just checking what other diseases do fish normally get? Is ich the only threat to marine fishes? Will there be any side effect (to the fish, don't care about inverts or corals, not interested in them anyway) or will copper creates other illnesses in fishes?

Remember I only want this to be a FOWLR tank. I can always set up a new tank should I have the interest in inverts or corals but right now, a FOWLR tank. And I want the blue tang!!!

I know if dosing copper into the main tank will cause a lot of deaths on the liverocks so am I expecting another ammonia spike? Will copper also cause algae problem?

Will copper kill mantis shrimps and crabs? I saw bunch of BIG crabs in the rocks and hear lots of click at night I want to get rid of them anyway if copper can do that for me that will be a +++. Because I heard mantis can break glass and both of them might pose a threat to fishes.

Also what about cleaning crews? If I can't have inverts do the cleaning for me what other fishes can fit in for that purpose? May be a couple of gobies (shift the sands) and blennies (perch the rocks)?

Lastly just checking if ALL kind of FISH will be doing fine in a copper treated tank. Will butterflies, anthias, all tangs do fine in copper tank?

Any comments will be very much appreciated but please bear in mind that I really do love fish more than coral.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:23 PM   #2
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Cleaning crews will pretty much be out because of the copper IE hermits, snails .... If I also remember correctly clowns should not be exposed to copper since they are a scaleless fish , ( I was told this by an experienced reefer) you also will want to do more water changes and also test test test when dosing copper . Why not try to use something like kich ich or perhaps a uv which may help you a bit ... or even dosing garlic which stimulates the eating response which helps keep their immune system going to beat it.. Use a tote bin with a garbage bag liner for a qt remove the bag when you are done and a tote can be used to store supplies in and such . Yes a mantis can break glass , and yes the copper could potentially take him out ...There are other diseases such as Hole in head disease that effects tangs as well as many others that right now I am drawing a blank on ...
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:33 PM   #3
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When people say garlic I don't quite get the picture of the garlic. Are the garlic those we bought in the supermarket for human consumption? Or a special type that only sold in LFS?
I mean those garlics for human consumption are HOT, how could you be possibly dose them into the tank or soak them with foods?

So when you said fishes immune system does that mean if their immune systems are good even when there is a presence of ich in the tank they won't get it? I thought ich is, well... ich by themselves only they decide on whose body they decided to stick on to, even a fish immune systems are good ich can still get hold on to whenever they want to. Or you mean the fish immune system can let the ich have no place to hold on to? If so how does this work? Is it their scale become more slippery for the ich to get hold to?

Sorry still new to this hobby.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:52 PM   #4
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I tried kick ich had so so results. Then tried Kordon ich attack suppose to be reef safe. Lost a number of crabs, starfish, and pod population drop so stopped mid treatment. Coral, snails and hermits survived. Had an old UV sterilizer that was broken fixed it and set it up. Ich disappeared and has not returned. I bought a 10 gallon plastic container ($3.99) which I'm using to qt new fish. Give alternatives a try before resorting to copper. Yes, it is the garlic you get at supermarket but you can get it liquidified
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weekf
When people say garlic I don't quite get the picture of the garlic. Are the garlic those we bought in the supermarket for human consumption? Or a special type that only sold in LFS?
I mean those garlics for human consumption are HOT, how could you be possibly dose them into the tank or soak them with foods?

So when you said fishes immune system does that mean if their immune systems are good even when there is a presence of ich in the tank they won't get it? I thought ich is, well... ich by themselves only they decide on whose body they decided to stick on to, even a fish immune systems are good ich can still get hold on to whenever they want to. Or you mean the fish immune system can let the ich have no place to hold on to? If so how does this work? Is it their scale become more slippery for the ich to get hold to?

Sorry still new to this hobby.
Their immune system tends to drop when infected , the garlic stimulates the eating response thus making it easier to fight off the ich. For example if you get a cold and take vitimin C the colds generally do not last as long, kind of the same principal . Ich will almost always be present in tanks but the healthier the fish the more chance of them fighting it off sucessfully ... Ich burrows its way into the fishes skin and feed off of them it is an opportunistic parasite that will become evident if the opportunity presents itself .. As stated garlic can be what we eat (fresh) or prepared . I use gel caps and fresh garlic.. Crush by fork or other means such as a mortor pestel (SP) soak food in it for not more than 30 minutes not less than 15 , the active part in the garlic is allicen (sp) that is what stimulates the feeding response . PS dont apologize for asking anything as we were all beginners at one point or another
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Old 10-29-2006, 10:17 PM   #6
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thanks all, I will try both hyposalinity method and feed them garlic tonight. Hopefully can get rid of the problem. I will use copper as the last resort.

If these method works I might even consider adding a blue tang when I have confidence in fighting ich.

Thanks for all your precious input, really appreciate it.
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Old 10-30-2006, 01:25 AM   #7
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Tangs dont handle copper very well. I would try first IMO the food soaking in garlic. The black ick is not as bad as the white ick. Just make sure he`s eating plenty of greens like seaweed selects or nori or some calerpa if possible soaked in garlic. Try this first and if not better then QT and do hypo.
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Old 10-30-2006, 02:08 AM   #8
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This is part of the fun about this hobby isn't it? I think I have got more stress than the fish.

I find this hobby is about problem solving, difficult, complex problems you need to deal with. Yet you still buy into it, weird...

I will follow your instructions mel to soak food in garlic first. If the black ich is still there few days later I will do the hypo.

Thanks for your helps.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:05 AM   #9
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Hypo is the only this that really works IMO. Dont ruin you future possibilitys with something that probably wont work.

It is much easier to keep corals in a bigger tank BTW!
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Old 10-30-2006, 07:36 PM   #10
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weekf, I thought I would give you my 2 cents worth. If you haven't done anything yet have a read through this thread...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=70505

steve-s was "THE" fish doctor on this site and helped me through my case of black ick.

Be sure to follow this link as well
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr.../blackich.html

If I remember correctly I gave 3 baths. Then I was not able to (financially or physically) keep up with the needed water changes in the QT so I gave them 1 last dip, a prayer, and put them in the main. I'm happy to say thats been almost 1 year and I have not seen the black ich recur.

This is just my experience - maybe I was lucky. But before you put copper in your main I'd give this a try.
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