Fish always dying!!!

[Nat_a126]

Okay with the chemicals. It was a shot in the dark but ya never know until you ask.

Yes, the FW dip does stress them for a bit but it's less stressful than what the parasite is doing to the fish. Lesser of 2 evils so to speak. But a healthy fish recovers quickly from this. I did it to fish that were just coming out of acclimation after traveling from overseas for over 24 hours and rarely, and I mean RARELY, did it adversely effect them.



What your rock could be leeching is dependent on what it grew around. I've had pieces come in with metal rods sticking out of them so I really couldn't say for positive what exactly is going on with yours. I don't tell you this to make you panic, just to make you aware that if all else fails, you may want to consider changing the rock for more smaller pieces that you can mound up and create more hiding spots while maintaining swimming areas. One thing that will eliminate this possibility is if you don't do major water changes between you getting new fish. If you didn't, the bad water that killed the previous fish would still be present and the new fish shouldn't be lasting that long before having issues. Again, this is a process of elimination so we are throwing out any possibility to hopefully fix your issue.



What about the phosphate level? Possibly why the algae you are growing is hair algae? As for dipping your rocks, I don't think that's really necessary, eliminate the cause of the growth and you eliminate the need to do that. That or get fish that will take the algae off the rocks for you.



We need to keep concentrating on what's happening the first 2 weeks in your tank. That is long enough for an ammonia buildup to happen. Have you tested your water during that time frame to see if there were any changes? Possibly you are overfeeding and the loss of the fish ( the ammonia producer) gives the BB enough time to catch up so it looks normal when you test?



Next, how about listing your typical tank maintenance routine. Maybe there is something there that we are missing?

Okay I'll stop dipping my rocks. I tested all my levels two days before my fish died and ammonia was 0.
(All my levels on here was two days before he died)

I clean algae off the walls every two weeks, 30% water change once a month (which I'm about to do tomorrow). Remove carbon every 4 months. Dump protein skimmer 1-2 times a week. Add Ro water whenever it needs it.


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[Nat_a126]

Well it sounds as if you have ticked almost all the boxes.
I tend to agree with Andy regarding how sparsely decorated the tank is. With the minimal rockwork and no background, the fish pretty much have nowhere to hide.
That in itself could cause some not to eat.
BUT
that doesn't answer the entire situation, otherwise certain fish, like the cardinals, wouldn't be effected as much, but a tang or an angel definitely wouldn't like it in there.


you got a bit of a head scratcher here because none of the replies given thus far account for everything going on, especially when the fish are surviving and for the most part doing ok for a couple weeks.


Personally, I would be testing the water parameters daily after adding new livestock.
I doesn't look as if there is much live rock and I never was too impressed with bio-balls ability and have always preferred some type of natural, porous material like Matrix or lava rock (phosphate free).


Maybe your BB colony is minimal because it doesn't have to contend with a big bio-load and when you add new fish a mini-cycle is initiated.
What is the most number of fish you have had in there and for how long?


Could be your tank never fully cycled, but has been limping along.




I just realized something;
What is the time span/correlation between these deaths and you cleaning and dipping your rocks?
You could be killing off the BB on the rock and that could be the straw breaking the proverbial camel's back right there.

I'm planning on getting more rocks for sure! I never figured I needed more since my clown never uses them, but I would love to keep an angel so yes I'll add more.

Hmm the most fish I've ever had was 5 for a good 3-4 months.


The last time I did the dipping was a month before I got the coral beauty.

Do you think occasionally dipping my rock in saltwater from my tank in a separate bucket would be ok? To remove any detritus or any other thing that could be blocking the holes.


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[Nat_a126]

I used to run carbon until I started having unexplained issues , once I stopped running carbon things turned around for the better , first thing I did notice was that my corals started looking better and stopped dieing , my fish stopped acting lethargic and started to be more active again along with how brilliant there color became , I also encountered one of the worst nightmares while running carbon , my reef looked as if it had just snowed , not sand like your probably thinking but white hair , one of the worst cases I've ever seen or encountered , it started slow in the sand almost undetectable and bam , It hit so hard I thought I lost my reef , this was aprox 2/3 months back ,
first thing I had to do was remove all the sand , after that I replaced it with new sand , at first I thought it was coming back but it was just a few hairs they died off in about 2 days of replacing sand , I am still battling this stuff on my rocks but I am winning the battle finally , today I say I'm around 75% to 85% finished with this fight , not anything I ever want to see again , now when I see carbon I think should I , I hear in my head dont go near it ever again , I now consider it as my worst enemy and for good reason ,

Oh gosh I've never even heard of that happening, that's horrible!


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[Flaxon-Waxon]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but there may be a parasite present that would require the tank to be kept fallow for 6-8 weeks to eradicate. If there was something introduced early in the tank, it may be continually hosting the new fish that are added and killing them.

 

[Nat_a126]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but there may be a parasite present that would require the tank to be kept fallow for 6-8 weeks to eradicate. If there was something introduced early in the tank, it may be continually hosting the new fish that are added and killing them.

What is this parasite called and how do you know if you have it? How come one fish is able to live?


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[coralbandit]

Many believe that once a fish is cured of marine ich that it is a lifetime carrier for one example.
I'm sure there are a few other disease that fall into this category(unfortunately).

 

[PB_Smith]

Many believe that once a fish is cured of marine ich that it is a lifetime carrier for one example.
I'm sure there are a few other disease that fall into this category(unfortunately).

No, what has been found is that after fighting off an ich infestation, many fish develop a heightened immunity to ich, but only lasts about 6-8 months.
Fish don't "carry" ich as you might carry a virus like hepatitis, but often once introduced to an aquarium, it is there unless the tank was left fallow for a couple/few months. Ich only needs the fish to feed get energy to reproduce and the fish is only needed in one stage of their life cycle.

The trick is balancing the fish's immunity/immune system with the reproductive rate of the parasite so that the parasites never manage to get a good stronghold in the system.
This really only applies to ich and not oodinium, flukes, worms or other parasites.

Temperature fluctuations, poor water quality, a stressful environment, poor diet all are contributing factors to a fish having a compromised immune system and succumbing to ich.

I always just assume that the lfs systems have ich and that any fish I buy has a better that 75% chance of having it.

 

[coralbandit]

No, what has been found is that after fighting off an ich infestation, many fish develop a heightened immunity to ich, but only lasts about 6-8 months.
Fish don't "carry" ich as you might carry a virus like hepatitis, but often once introduced to an aquarium, it is there unless the tank was left fallow for a couple/few months. Ich only needs the fish to feed get energy to reproduce and the fish is only needed in one stage of their life cycle.

The trick is balancing the fish's immunity/immune system with the reproductive rate of the parasite so that the parasites never manage to get a good stronghold in the system.
This really only applies to ich and not oodinium, flukes, worms or other parasites.

Temperature fluctuations, poor water quality, a stressful environment, poor diet all are contributing factors to a fish having a compromised immune system and succumbing to ich.

I always just assume that the lfs systems have ich and that any fish I buy has a better that 75% chance of having it.

Fish that survive a Cryptocaryon infection develop immunity, which can prevent significant disease for up to 6 months (Burgess 1992; Burgess and Matthews 1995). However, these survivors may act as carriers and provide a reservoir for future outbreaks (Colorni and Burgess 1997).
Taken from
FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish
Just an example as I stated.
There are others.

 

[Nat_a126]

Pretty sure none of my fish have had ich before in my tank, never seen any white spots.


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[gemach7]

This could be a combination of things which is why it's so hard to pin down.

1 perhaps upon initial release to the tank fish experience a PH shock. And leaves them vulnerable to disease and stress.
2 your tank may have some form of disease or chemical in the water column.
3 already stressed fish are more vulnerable to changes in water chemistry.(drops in salinity, temporary raises in nitrates, change in temperature, change in ph).
4 some of the purchased fish could have already been sick.

As part of narrowing down would: lengthen your drip acclimation. As well as add only 1 fish every 2-4 weeks as you stated this is the timeframe you said you are losing them.

If your buying from LFS see if you can purchase and they hold the fish at the LFS for a period of time and will act as your quarantine.

Test the water at the LFS before you purchase and match their PH in your tank.

Not sure was mentioned but do you have a Calcium test? The massive amount of coraline algae could indicate values well above what would be found in the ocean and this can effect fish.


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[Nat_a126]

This could be a combination of things which is why it's so hard to pin down.

1 perhaps upon initial release to the tank fish experience a PH shock. And leaves them vulnerable to disease and stress.
2 your tank may have some form of disease or chemical in the water column.
3 already stressed fish are more vulnerable to changes in water chemistry.(drops in salinity, temporary raises in nitrates, change in temperature, change in ph).
4 some of the purchased fish could have already been sick.

As part of narrowing down would: lengthen your drip acclimation. As well as add only 1 fish every 2-4 weeks as you stated this is the timeframe you said you are losing them.

If your buying from LFS see if you can purchase and they hold the fish at the LFS for a period of time and will act as your quarantine.

Test the water at the LFS before you purchase and match their PH in your tank.

Not sure was mentioned but do you have a Calcium test? The massive amount of coraline algae could indicate values well above what would be found in the ocean and this can effect fish.


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If it was disease or chemicals, do you think my clown would also be dead?

I don't have a calcium testing kit, I'll bring some water to test to my lfs. Should I test for akilinity? Idk if this makes a difference, but the only thing I add to my water is a buffer, I don't add any magnesium or calcium or iodine etc. btw, I've never heard of calcium levels killing fish?

I drip for an hour to an hour and a half. I'll test for pH to make sure it is the same, I usually don't and I realize that mistake now


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[Mebbid]

Wow there is a lot going on here. In an attempt to condense information let me try to summarize.

The fish that were lost are 5 Bangaii Cardinals, 2 fox faces, Chromis, and a coral beauty

The fish last approximately 4 weeks before passing away

• Tank has been set up for over a year
• Drip acclimation of fish for 1 hour
• No Cleaning chemicals used on or near the tank
• pH is stable at approximately 8.0 (drops to 7.8 at night)
• No ammonia / nitrites
• 10 - 15ish nitrates
• API Saltwater Master test kit
• Coral Beauty appeared to have died from Lymphocytis
• Fox Face appeared to die of flukes
• Cardinals seemed to die for no reason
• Fish were from 5 different LFS
• No heater
• Running a Skimmer and sump
• Water is from natural salt water and RO
• Low oxygen is ruled out
• Dipping or pouring RO water onto rocks (No longer doing this)
• Stir up surface sand to get rid of algae
• Carbon is ran
• 30% monthly water change
• Carbon Replacement every 4 months

Is there anything that I missed?

 

[Mebbid]

If it was disease or chemicals, do you think my clown would also be dead?

I drip for an hour to an hour and a half. I'll test for pH to make sure it is the same, I usually don't and I realize that mistake now

Also make sure to match the temp. Dripping for an hour really isn't much depending on how fast you're dripping. I generally double the volume of the water 3 times when I'm dripping anything. I empty out half the water each time when I do this. After the 3rd time I check the pH and salinity before making sure the temperature matches.

I have a pump and skimmer (no heater because they aren't any annual temperature swings that affect my tank more than one or two degrees) could be that, how can I check?


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What does the temperature of your tank run?

 

[spoonman]

What do you mean by "the water is from natural salt water"? Is it from the ocean?

 

[gemach7]

If it was disease or chemicals, do you think my clown would also be dead?

I don't have a calcium testing kit, I'll bring some water to test to my lfs. Should I test for akilinity? Idk if this makes a difference, but the only thing I add to my water is a buffer, I don't add any magnesium or calcium or iodine etc. btw, I've never heard of calcium levels killing fish?

I drip for an hour to an hour and a half. I'll test for pH to make sure it is the same, I usually don't and I realize that mistake now


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Was the clown fish captive bred? I find caught fish and those bred from caught fish are more susceptible to stress from changing tank parameters At least my experience with freshwater fish.

Calcium levels effect the hardness of the water too little and ph isn't stable. Extremely high levels of calcium is enough to kill fish.

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[Nat_a126]

Wow there is a lot going on here. In an attempt to condense information let me try to summarize.

The fish that were lost are 5 Bangaii Cardinals, 2 fox faces, Chromis, and a coral beauty

The fish last approximately 4 weeks before passing away

• Tank has been set up for over a year
• Drip acclimation of fish for 1 hour
• No Cleaning chemicals used on or near the tank
• pH is stable at approximately 8.0 (drops to 7.8 at night)
• No ammonia / nitrites
• 10 - 15ish nitrates
• API Saltwater Master test kit
• Coral Beauty appeared to have died from Lymphocytis
• Fox Face appeared to die of flukes
• Cardinals seemed to die for no reason
• Fish were from 5 different LFS
• No heater
• Running a Skimmer and sump
• Water is from natural salt water and RO
• Low oxygen is ruled out
• Dipping or pouring RO water onto rocks (No longer doing this)
• Stir up surface sand to get rid of algae
• Carbon is ran
• 30% monthly water change
• Carbon Replacement every 4 months

Is there anything that I missed?

You got everything


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[Nat_a126]

Also make sure to match the temp. Dripping for an hour really isn't much depending on how fast you're dripping. I generally double the volume of the water 3 times when I'm dripping anything. I empty out half the water each time when I do this. After the 3rd time I check the pH and salinity before making sure the temperature matches.



What does the temperature of your tank run?

I float the bag with the fish in my tank for 15 minutes before I drip for an hour. I check salinity, but I don't check pH which I'm going to start doing as of now.


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[Nat_a126]

What do you mean by "the water is from natural salt water"? Is it from the ocean?

Yup


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[Nat_a126]

Was the clown fish captive bred? I find caught fish and those bred from caught fish are more susceptible to stress from changing tank parameters At least my experience with freshwater fish.

Calcium levels effect the hardness of the water too little and ph isn't stable. Extremely high levels of calcium is enough to kill fish.

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Yeah captive bred ocellaris clown. If my pH levels are stable (7.8 at night, 8.0 during the day), can we rule out calcium?


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[Nat_a126]

I'm gonna do a 30% water change today. I also added 3 1/2 lbs of live rock for more hiding places. My lfs tested my water just so I can be sure I'm reading the colors right, and they got the same exact results as me.


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