Fish always dying!!!

[scuba dude]

Ill check right now. I usually check after I turn the lights on, and my lights are off right now so maybe it's lower. What would u consider a significant pH swing that would cause death?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

PH swing enough to cause death. I have never heard of such a thing.

Is this indeed possible and if so what would cause such a thing?
Not saying it is not something that could happen but have never heard of it.
Still learning and curious.

 

[Fel]

Depends on where it goes, if it's going from 8->9 that's much worse than going from 8->7 because it's a logarithmic scale. if this is happening however it's more important to address it by figuring out what's causing it and making sure you have enough of a buffer.

Keep in mind it may not directly kill the fish but rather never lets your new fish acclimate to the water conditions which would in turn stress them and leave them vulnerable to disease.

Edit: keep in mind I'm just throwing the idea out there as a possible cause, and let's face it it's super easy to check.


Sent from my HTC6515LVW using Tapatalk

 

[gemach7]

Do you have tests for other compounds besides nitrogen based?

It is possible that elements like copper are present in your tap water at high enough concentrations to impact the life in the system.

This is mute if your using ro/di but didn't see that mentioned in your post.

If don't have most LFS that sell saltwater fish can test your water for you. Mine requires a sample for their 48hour return policy.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Nat_a126]

Do you have tests for other compounds besides nitrogen based?

It is possible that elements like copper are present in your tap water at high enough concentrations to impact the life in the system.

This is mute if your using ro/di but didn't see that mentioned in your post.

If don't have most LFS that sell saltwater fish can test your water for you. Mine requires a sample for their 48hour return policy.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

I use natural salt water from a store and RO water. I've tested the RO water, it has zero nitrates, ammonia, nitrites


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Nat_a126]

Depends on where it goes, if it's going from 8->9 that's much worse than going from 8->7 because it's a logarithmic scale. if this is happening however it's more important to address it by figuring out what's causing it and making sure you have enough of a buffer.

Keep in mind it may not directly kill the fish but rather never lets your new fish acclimate to the water conditions which would in turn stress them and leave them vulnerable to disease.

Edit: keep in mind I'm just throwing the idea out there as a possible cause, and let's face it it's super easy to check.


Sent from my HTC6515LVW using Tapatalk

Okay so when the lights are on, my pH is 8.0, and when the lights are off, it's 7.8. Is that enough to cause stress? I usually leave the lights on two-four hours a day


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Nat_a126]

Are 15 ppm nitrates bad for a FOWLR


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[54seaweed]

Hi, so I've had a 65 gallon FOWLR fish tank for 1 year 6 months

My parameters are
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 10-15 ppm
PH: 8.0
Salinity: 1.025

Your parameters are in the safe range for a FOWLR (BUT) some fish are more sensitive than others , even though you have a FOWLR try getting your parameters closer to 0,
Always be sure you drip acclimate your stock , are you QTing your fish this is the best way to find if they are eating or not , sometimes you will find that the parameters from the fish store either higher or lower , never add fish to fast ,in either QT or main tank
you had a coral beauty did you supply him with nori or some type of macro algae,
as they are herbivorous, are you sure that he didn't starve, was he bullied by a tank mate there can be many factors

Okay so when the lights are on, my pH is 8.0, and when the lights are off, it's 7.8. Is that enough to cause stress? I usually leave the lights on two-four hours a day

that is normal for ph to get lower as lights are out

 

[Nat_a126]

Your parameters are in the safe range for a FOWLR (BUT) some fish are more sensitive than others , even though you have a FOWLR try getting your parameters closer to 0,
Always be sure you drip acclimate your stock , are you QTing your fish this is the best way to find if they are eating or not , sometimes you will find that the parameters from the fish store either higher or lower , never add fish to fast ,in either QT or main tank
you had a coral beauty did you supply him with nori or some type of macro algae,
as they are herbivorous, are you sure that he didn't starve, was he bullied by a tank mate there can be many factors



that is normal for ph to get lower as lights are out

I do drip acclimate, but I can't afford a QT. no bullies, I've never seen any aggressive behavior in my tank, they're all peaceful. My coral beauty refused to eat nori or any plant matter I gave him even though I added garlic, but he ate brine, bloodworms, and mysis and picked algae off the rocks.

My fish just seem to get sick and the die it's really sad. Do you think I might not have enough biological filtration? Should I get some Rotifers or coepods or whatnot


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[TheTodd]

If your ammonia and nitrites are zero, then your biological filtration is probably okay. Do t add several fish at once and there should be no problem.

Have these fish shown any signs of disease or exhibited and strange behaviors?

Also...coral beauties (and most Angels) are omnivorous, not herbivores. Meaty foods and some greens are fine. Food with sponge in it every once and a while is even better.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[54seaweed]

you said your tank is over a year old so I don't see why it wouldn't
I'm sure you have them , just don't see them in the rocks
most dwarf angels are sensitive , I always find small ones around a inch fair better for some odd reason
red grape macro they will tear it up glue or use small rubber bands to attach to a few pieces to small rocks in the sand bed and add a few pieces between rocks up higher , it will attach eventually putting it in several spots will give it a chance to grow , most of my fish love it , must be a tasty treat

coral beauties (and most Angels)are omnivorous, not herbivores

opps got ahead of myself typing
Thanks for the correction

 

[Nat_a126]

If your ammonia and nitrites are zero, then your biological filtration is probably okay. Do t add several fish at once and there should be no problem.

Have these fish shown any signs of disease or exhibited and strange behaviors?

Also...coral beauties (and most Angels) are omnivorous, not herbivores. Meaty foods and some greens are fine. Food with sponge in it every once and a while is even better.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Yeah they're fine in the pet store and in my tank for the first two weeks, and then they get sick, stop eating, hide, then die. My coral beauty had lymphocytis, then he got frayed fins, lost color, stopped eating and just hid all day. I feed every other day



Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Andy Sager]

For what it's worth, Lymphocystis is viral and usually found on fish living in poor conditions. This could mean that the Live Rock you have in the tank may be leeching something as well as possibly the tank decor being too sparse. Lack of security causes the fish to get stressed which is the first cause of diseases. The fact that the fish last for the first 2 weeks okay before deteriorating sounds like the environment they are being housed in is not sound enough for long term use. Since you mentioned a number of different types of fish all having issues, I would have to think it's not the acclimating ( I rarely saw fish poorly acclimated and surviving 2-4 weeks) but the set up. So let's dig deeper.
I see you have what appears to be good water flow but what about oxygenation? Have you tested for dissolved oxygen?
Recalling a situation at a customer's house, do you have anyone cleaning the house or area near the tank with any kind of chemicals that may be getting into the water? ( My customer's housekeeper was bleaching the floor right in front of his tank and the airpump just sucked it in and routinely killed his fish every 6 weeks like clockwork until I visited his house and asked about it. )
As I was getting out of the marine fish importing biz back in 2000, it was becoming a common occurrence for fish lice to be on many of the fish coming in from the Pacific. A simple freshwater bath after acclimation and just prior release into the tank was solving a lot of those issues. Have you tried FW dipping your fish?
Let's start with these scenarios.

 

[Nat_a126]

For what it's worth, Lymphocystis is viral and usually found on fish living in poor conditions. This could mean that the Live Rock you have in the tank may be leeching something as well as possibly the tank decor being too sparse. Lack of security causes the fish to get stressed which is the first cause of diseases. The fact that the fish last for the first 2 weeks okay before deteriorating sounds like the environment they are being housed in is not sound enough for long term use. Since you mentioned a number of different types of fish all having issues, I would have to think it's not the acclimating ( I rarely saw fish poorly acclimated and surviving 2-4 weeks) but the set up. So let's dig deeper.
I see you have what appears to be good water flow but what about oxygenation? Have you tested for dissolved oxygen?
Recalling a situation at a customer's house, do you have anyone cleaning the house or area near the tank with any kind of chemicals that may be getting into the water? ( My customer's housekeeper was bleaching the floor right in front of his tank and the airpump just sucked it in and routinely killed his fish every 6 weeks like clockwork until I visited his house and asked about it. )
As I was getting out of the marine fish importing biz back in 2000, it was becoming a common occurrence for fish lice to be on many of the fish coming in from the Pacific. A simple freshwater bath after acclimation and just prior release into the tank was solving a lot of those issues. Have you tried FW dipping your fish?
Let's start with these scenarios.

Hmmm it could be the live rock! I guess my clown has lived so long because she isn't the kind of fish that likes hiding. I have really good oxygen flow, my sump makes sure of that I'm 100% certain. I make sure not to let anyone use chemicals around my tank, and I don't wash my equipment with soap.

I fw dipped my fox face when he got flukes, but wouldn't this just stress them out even more?

Maybe buying some branching rock will help. What do you think my rock could be leaching? I really curious!

(Sometimes I'll blow my rocks with a turkey Baster to get detritus/junk off of it, or I'll stir up my sand a bit to get rid of the brown algae on the top. Once in a while to get rid of nuisance algae, I'll dip or pour RO water on a few rocks) is this okay or should I stop this?




Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[coralbandit]

^^Andy mentioned the untested.^^
OP do you run carbon?
It is only good IMO for removing things we can not test for.....
3-4 weeks is not weak stock or bad acclimation IMO.
Get your pH up to 8+ and what about KH?
The cards kill each other in schools under 10 so no big mystery there.
Something is in your water that doesn't belong IMO.
I'll add(and beat me silly) but besides the abundance of coralline your tank looks new not 1 1/2 year old?
You never get any green growth or just super up on cleaning??
That would be the explanation on foxface losses IMO.

 

[Nat_a126]

^^Andy mentioned the untested.^^
OP do you run carbon?
It is only good IMO for removing things we can not test for.....
3-4 weeks is not weak stock or bad acclimation IMO.
Get your pH up to 8+ and what about KH?
The cards kill each other in schools under 10 so no big mystery there.
Something is in your water that doesn't belong IMO.
I'll add(and beat me silly) but besides the abundance of coralline your tank looks new not 1 1/2 year old?
You never get any green growth or just super up on cleaning??
That would be the explanation on foxface losses IMO.

Yeah I run carbon, snd I'm also thinking it's something in the water, something I'm not testing for. I don't think it's copper because I've have some snails in there for over a year.

Okay I'll add more buffer raise it to 8.2

I had 5 cardinals and honestly they all swam together fine. They picked on one, so he died pretty fast. After that they were all good until they just stopped eating one by one.

I've had it since January 2014. The only algae that ever grows on my rock is hair algae and I absolutely hate hair algae so I remove it all. Along with a few random bubble algae I pull off the rocks. Besides that, I just get a lot of coralline. Ps. I fed my fox faces nori, brine, mysis, and bloodworm

This might be a really stupid question, but what exactly is KH?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[spoonman]

When you put in carbon do you rinse it thoroughly? I killed off almost a whole tank full of fish with carbon fines that were not rinsed out enough.

 

[Nat_a126]

When you put in carbon do you rinse it thoroughly? I killed off almost a whole tank full of fish with carbon fines that were not rinsed out enough.

Yeah I rinse it until the water doesn't run black anymore


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[54seaweed]

I used to run carbon until I started having unexplained issues , once I stopped running carbon things turned around for the better , first thing I did notice was that my corals started looking better and stopped dieing , my fish stopped acting lethargic and started to be more active again along with how brilliant there color became , I also encountered one of the worst nightmares while running carbon , my reef looked as if it had just snowed , not sand like your probably thinking but white hair , one of the worst cases I've ever seen or encountered , it started slow in the sand almost undetectable and bam , It hit so hard I thought I lost my reef , this was aprox 2/3 months back ,
first thing I had to do was remove all the sand , after that I replaced it with new sand , at first I thought it was coming back but it was just a few hairs they died off in about 2 days of replacing sand , I am still battling this stuff on my rocks but I am winning the battle finally , today I say I'm around 75% to 85% finished with this fight , not anything I ever want to see again , now when I see carbon I think should I , I hear in my head dont go near it ever again , I now consider it as my worst enemy and for good reason ,

 

[Andy Sager]

Hmmm it could be the live rock! I guess my clown has lived so long because she isn't the kind of fish that likes hiding. I have really good oxygen flow, my sump makes sure of that I'm 100% certain. I make sure not to let anyone use chemicals around my tank, and I don't wash my equipment with soap.

I fw dipped my fox face when he got flukes, but wouldn't this just stress them out even more?

Maybe buying some branching rock will help. What do you think my rock could be leaching? I really curious!

(Sometimes I'll blow my rocks with a turkey Baster to get detritus/junk off of it, or I'll stir up my sand a bit to get rid of the brown algae on the top. Once in a while to get rid of nuisance algae, I'll dip or pour RO water on a few rocks) is this okay or should I stop this?

View attachment 274826View attachment 274827


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Okay with the chemicals. It was a shot in the dark but ya never know until you ask.
Yes, the FW dip does stress them for a bit but it's less stressful than what the parasite is doing to the fish. Lesser of 2 evils so to speak. But a healthy fish recovers quickly from this. I did it to fish that were just coming out of acclimation after traveling from overseas for over 24 hours and rarely, and I mean RARELY, did it adversely effect them.

What your rock could be leeching is dependent on what it grew around. I've had pieces come in with metal rods sticking out of them so I really couldn't say for positive what exactly is going on with yours. I don't tell you this to make you panic, just to make you aware that if all else fails, you may want to consider changing the rock for more smaller pieces that you can mound up and create more hiding spots while maintaining swimming areas. One thing that will eliminate this possibility is if you don't do major water changes between you getting new fish. If you didn't, the bad water that killed the previous fish would still be present and the new fish shouldn't be lasting that long before having issues. Again, this is a process of elimination so we are throwing out any possibility to hopefully fix your issue.

What about the phosphate level? Possibly why the algae you are growing is hair algae? As for dipping your rocks, I don't think that's really necessary, eliminate the cause of the growth and you eliminate the need to do that. That or get fish that will take the algae off the rocks for you.

We need to keep concentrating on what's happening the first 2 weeks in your tank. That is long enough for an ammonia buildup to happen. Have you tested your water during that time frame to see if there were any changes? Possibly you are overfeeding and the loss of the fish ( the ammonia producer) gives the BB enough time to catch up so it looks normal when you test?

Next, how about listing your typical tank maintenance routine. Maybe there is something there that we are missing?

 

[PB_Smith]

Well it sounds as if you have ticked almost all the boxes.
I tend to agree with Andy regarding how sparsely decorated the tank is. With the minimal rockwork and no background, the fish pretty much have nowhere to hide.
That in itself could cause some not to eat.
BUT
that doesn't answer the entire situation, otherwise certain fish, like the cardinals, wouldn't be effected as much, but a tang or an angel definitely wouldn't like it in there.


you got a bit of a head scratcher here because none of the replies given thus far account for everything going on, especially when the fish are surviving and for the most part doing ok for a couple weeks.


Personally, I would be testing the water parameters daily after adding new livestock.
I doesn't look as if there is much live rock and I never was too impressed with bio-balls ability and have always preferred some type of natural, porous material like Matrix or lava rock (phosphate free).


Maybe your BB colony is minimal because it doesn't have to contend with a big bio-load and when you add new fish a mini-cycle is initiated.
What is the most number of fish you have had in there and for how long?


Could be your tank never fully cycled, but has been limping along.




I just realized something;
What is the time span/correlation between these deaths and you cleaning and dipping your rocks?
You could be killing off the BB on the rock and that could be the straw breaking the proverbial camel's back right there.