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Old 08-01-2014, 08:43 PM   #1
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Food is food, it's how we feed

I have for years gone by the assumption that frozen food was better than even high quality flake food. Rinsing the frozen food discarded inedible juices that would just turn to phosphates made good sense. Time and time again, we recommend to folks with algae outbreaks to knock off the flake foods. But then I got to thinking about my dogs.

If I fed my dogs by scattering the food all around the house, it wouldn't matter if it was frozen, fresh or dry. I would end up with a stinky mouse infested house, as even my faithful dogs noses would miss some. With them and my fish, it's about getting the food into the fish and not all over the tank. Scavengers and some corals are happy to eat this flying food, but a great deal of it gets caught in places where it deteriorates into phosphates.

In my view, while I would never depend solely on flake foods or pellets, some dried foods can provide minerals and vitamins as well as proteins. And if fed to the fish, not scattered about the tank, they should create no more phosphate than any other food, maybe less. I have developed a few techniques that seem to work in controlling the food and getting it into the fish. Pretty simple stuff.

So my dogs get a high quality dried food, mixed with can and fresh foods. In a bowl, or as we fishy folks call it, a targeted feeder. If it works on my dogs, it's good enough for the fish.

I am interested if others agree or disagree.


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Old 08-01-2014, 10:44 PM   #2
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I have never thought about it, really. Just followed the advice of more experienced reefers. But I will admit that your anology makes perfect sense. Bottom line I would say is: poop is poop, it's what doesn't get converted to poop that causes troubles.
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:21 PM   #3
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I just read a good article where it was noted all nutritious foods have phosphates. Part of the cellular process. But my thinking is still that flake foods and pellets have a role in my husbandry when I had avoided them for years. It's about getting the maximum nutritional value for the volume of food and it's inherent phosphate content.


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Old 08-02-2014, 12:03 AM   #4
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That's an excellent analogy!

I do think it's a combo of quality, quantity, and placement.

Back to the mammalian analogy ... When I fed my cats food with chicken by product meal and higher carbohydrates, they ate a lot, pooped a lot, the box was super stinky, and they got a little chubby with lots of plaque. When I fed them food without byproducts, and stuck with kitten food (higher protein and fat, less carbohydrate) ... They ate less, pooped less, the box didn't stink as much, and they were super lean with clean mouths.

Our LFS recommended cobalt, and there didn't seem to be much waste because the flakes don't really deteriorate. But NLS is a bit higher quality, and the tank was cleaner with it even though the .5mm pellets "scatter" a lot more.

Seriously, the NLS pellets end up EVERYWHERE. But I find them to equal a cleaner tank than anything else I've tried (including frozen), probably because I have an assorted clean up crew: ghost shrimp, otos, pygmy loaches, malaysian trumpet snails, and yes even pond snails. I've learned to love even the "pest" snails because the tank is so clean. My 29 gallon has 1 shrimp/oto/loach per 2 gallons, plus the snails.

Even when I go to vacuum, nothing really comes up, the snails/etc have converted it down to such teeny particles. Apparently ghost shrimp and snails sift through fish poop, breaking it up, getting what food went undigested, and scattering the rest.

So. I think it's part quality, part method, and a big big part ecosystem.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:10 AM   #5
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I strongly agree. If all food is consumed, what is left to become phosphates? Nothing really, it becomes poop which is cleaned out. Honestly, if you feed the correct amount of whichever food of your picking, there shouldnt really be a problem.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:16 AM   #6
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I strongly agree. If all food is consumed, what is left to become phosphates? Nothing really, it becomes poop which is cleaned out. Honestly, if you feed the correct amount of whichever food of your picking, there shouldnt really be a problem.
All food contributes to phosphates whether its ingested or left to rot in the tank. It's something that can't be avoided. The only thing you can do on that front is limit the amount of uneaten food left to rot in the tank.

It always confused me why dry foods are looked at in such a poor manner. Many of the higher quality foods have a large vitamin content and are quite healthy for fish. While in the past the dry foods might have been junk that's definitely changed in the recent past. It's just a stigma that's held on over the years.
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:40 PM   #7
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Was just on another forum discussing this with somebody that has access to a marine biologist that sells and makes their own foods. He found during autopsies that many captive fish have fat livers. Not sure yet what foods cause this as I am still plowing thru the info.


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Old 08-02-2014, 02:42 PM   #8
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All food contributes to phosphates whether its ingested or left to rot in the tank. It's something that can't be avoided. The only thing you can do on that front is limit the amount of uneaten food left to rot in the tank.

It always confused me why dry foods are looked at in such a poor manner. Many of the higher quality foods have a large vitamin content and are quite healthy for fish. While in the past the dry foods might have been junk that's definitely changed in the recent past. It's just a stigma that's held on over the years.

But the premise still stands that feeding efficiently puts more food in the fish and less wasted in the tank. Every gram less of food you have to feed is that much less phosphate.


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Old 08-02-2014, 02:51 PM   #9
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But the premise still stands that feeding efficiently puts more food in the fish and less wasted in the tank. Every gram less of food you have to feed is that much less phosphate.


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Yep, exactly
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Old 08-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #10
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Interesting but pretty basic.

http://www.peteducation.com/article....+2160&aid=3401


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