Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Reef Aquaria
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
Old 06-13-2007, 04:11 PM   #11
Community Admin
melosu58's Avatar

Tank of the Month Award
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 38,417
I`ve checked several places and they suggest a minimum of 70 gallons for this fish. Swimming room is not the only determining factor here. Water volume is also a big player here. Being a messy eater and the large bioload this fish places on such a small volume of water. JMO



You can view many of my fish and corals in my photo albums in my profile.

View my tank

AA Community Rules|AA TOS

Forums 101 - posting, accounts, basics
melosu58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 08:38 PM   #12
AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
I believe the "70g minimum" is based upon the max size of the inhabitant, which attains almost 10in. in the wild; however, in a home aquarium you can expect 6-7in. so a 40g would probably be ok. Considering the animal was 3", give or take, a 24g is/was suitable for the time being. You would be better off housing a smaller specie such as A. maculatus for future reference. The blisters could have been anything from an injury that was quickly followed by infection to supersaturation of the skin.

Innovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 09:02 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Regular
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by tecwzrd
Originally Posted by melosu58
What size tank was this? What are your water parameters? Need more info.
24 gal cube.

Considering it was only 3" I don't think it was stressed by the tanks size but without knowing parameters i.e. ph/sg/temp/nh3/no2/no3/alk/ca/ect... (real numbers) it's not easy to say if it was stressed otherwise.

How does your other stock look?
I have only 2 damsels - they look fine...color is vibrant, no signs of blisters or spots.

Originally Posted by macman7010
My first question would be how long the 3" frogfish was in the tank. Considering that many retail facilities quarantine fish in tanks much smaller then 24 gallons for extended periods I think it is safe to assume that a small amount of time in a less then recommended tank can fare alright. Many LFS's utilize long slender tanks with acrylic partitions, only giving the fish a tiny amount of room to house the fish that are offered for sale; even in those tight quarters fish can survive.

While I am totally not advocating keeping fish in tanks too small for them; or tanks too small to accommodate them as adults; I don't believe that the stress of a 3" fish being in a 24 gallon aquarium would kill a frogfish. A surgeonfish perhaps or even another species that is an active open water swimmer. Famous Discus breeders not only house but successfully breed Discus fish in 20 gallon long tanks. Tanks of 55 gallons or more are often recommended for Discus fish but the nature of the fish's swimming habits can make them easy to house in smaller quarters.

Another question I have for Bonez is how often the fish was fed and what it was eating. Also how frequent were you doing partial water changes. Bio-load could have played a role in this fish's demise although if PWC's were done on the proper basis (maybe even more frequent then recommended) it may not have been an issue. Also a post of water chemistry readings:


would be very helpful.
My water parameters for nitrate and amonia were 0ppm, PH was 8.4, I do not have test kits for phosphate or alk...

I do my PWC's ever thursday religeously - I think it may have been the salinity was too high - I posted another thread about replacing evaporated water - I was using catalina saltwater from the LFS to replace it, which spiked the salt, now im using RO water for evap. I'm just devestated about his death :X

I had him for about a month, maybe longer - he was doing just fine and all of a sudden grew leasons , 2 days later died. ;(

I know I shouldn't have done this - and everyone will yell at me, but I thought it would be okay, (being a newb SW hobbyist) I put about 5-6 hermit crabs from the laguna beach tide pools in my tank ( i live close to the beach)

A.) It's illegal to remove creatures from tidepools
B.) The crabs in the laguna tide pools are from different waters than the FF I had.

C.) I figured if im putting catalina SW in my tank - the crabs that live near catalina or around abouts would live. The crabs are all alive after 3 weeks - maybe they polluted the water in my tank somehow? Maybe an enzyme that they emit when submitted to an enclosed habitat? I definitely screwed up on that one, but I don't want to just take the crabs out and kill them - maybe I need to remove the crabs and place them back into the tide habitat.

I hope some of this information helps
Bonez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 08:49 AM   #14
AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,391
Send a message via Yahoo to tecwzrd
An SG increase will put enough stress on stock to kill them but if you were just topping off and the SG didn't get above 1.028 then IMO the slow SG increase didn't do your frogfish in.

Removing hermits from the tide pool was wrong but also IMO it is highly unlikely they could have transmitted any disease but it's still a remote possibility.

At this point since the rest of your stock looks OK I'd leave everything as it is.

If you haven't figured it out yet I like to BOLD links :P

Vote for AA at Aqua Rank
tecwzrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 11:10 AM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 3,294
What did you feed the fish?
what was the SG after topping off with SW
9/02-125 REEF, 125 lbs LR,LS 4x160 VHO, Reef Devil /Sump, Fuge
7/03-55 FOWLR 60lb LR, 50 lb SD sand 2x40 NO strip light, Reef Devil/sump, Fuge

TANK PICS http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=98202
seaham358 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 11:14 AM   #16
AA Team Emeritus
roka64's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,858
Send a message via AIM to roka64 Send a message via Yahoo to roka64
Didn't you have a post where you thought you had seen some worms around his gills or something to that effect?
Age is relative, you are only as old as you act....of course, this works in reverse....

Questions loved, heeded advice greatly appreciated!

Vote for AA
Good reading about:
Nitrogen Cycle
Fishless Cycling
Need more help?
Acronym List

roka64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 11:50 AM   #17
Aquarium Advice Regular
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by seaham358
What did you feed the fish?
what was the SG after topping off with SW
I fed him feeder fish / gold fish
Bonez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 12:11 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice FINatic
macman7010's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 833
I totally agree with Tec on both points. A slow increase in salinity would not be enough to kill your frogfish and while totally wrong, the hermit crabs that you took from the tide pool likely didn't have any effect either.

If your water parameters are all in check it's very hard to diagnose what killed him. As I stated earlier and reaffirm now that I have read your water change schedule I dont think the tank, while obviously too small for an adult frogfish was what killed the animal. With the huge variety of parasites, viruses, bacterial infections, etc that can infect aquatic organisms it gets very, very impossible, without a microscope to see what is causing a fish's illness.

That said I would like to make a comment in general about removing marine animals from nature for our aquariums. It's common knowledge that 85% or more of the livestock sold for marine aquariums is wild caught. Although when you purchase wild caught livestock you are doing so from a licensed retailer on the U.S. end and hopefully a licensed supplier on the international end. This means that both parties have rules and regulations that must be follows and not to exceed quotas to try to help manage the amount of livestock removed from the ocean.

When we take animals from the ocean ourselves we make the marine aquarium hobby appear very irresponsible. Sadly, often times when a private party removes a marine animal it later ends up that the same animal is re-released into the wild, a practices that can cause tremendous amounts of environmental instability. These practices can, in a round about way influence the spread of invasive species which in turn can add to ocean destruction and coral reef decline. Simply put, don't do it! It's illegal for a reason and makes for a very irresponsible hobby.
Want a great read check out my debut novel Neptune's Garden: www.neptunesgardenbook.com
macman7010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 12:19 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Addict
severum mama's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 10,297
I wonder if the feeder fish gave some kind of disease to the frog fish. It wouldn't surprise me, I don't even feed them to any of my FW fish. Also, it is my understanding that it's not good to feed FW fish to SW fish, can't remember specific reasons offhand.
severum mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 12:22 PM   #20
AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,391
Send a message via Yahoo to tecwzrd
Possible but also unlikely both because of the short duration of feeding FW feeders to the SW fish (which causes internal problems in the long run mostly affecting the kidney) but also because most FW diseases are not transmittable to SW fish directly.


If you haven't figured it out yet I like to BOLD links :P

Vote for AA at Aqua Rank
tecwzrd is offline   Reply With Quote

die, died, frog

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frogfish jsrdj Saltwater Reef Aquaria 1 12-11-2008 11:07 AM
Frogfish AndyH5512 Saltwater Reef Aquaria 2 07-13-2005 12:33 PM
Brown Frogfish The Matt Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 3 03-30-2005 01:17 AM
Frogfish? fishstixs05 Saltwater Reef Aquaria 18 06-30-2004 05:53 AM
How do you tell if a Frogfish is sick? Nitrate Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral 0 05-16-2004 08:14 PM

» Photo Contest Winners

Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.