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Old 04-26-2008, 10:37 PM   #1
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Got to try everything

I added a 2 inch powder blue to my 75 gallon SPS tank 2 months ago. I had one last year when my tank was only 6 months old and it lasted for 1 month, got ich died while still eating/grazing on the rocks. It was all head, the rest was withered with white dots. I later found out that my UV sterilzer was not working as the input pumps's regulator was wide open, letting in too much water too fast not allowing enough contact time. That outbreak I also lost a sailfin tang, 2 yellow tangs, and a royal gramma. I QT'd him for 1 month. I slowly restocked. Now I have too many fish (overcompensated for my earlier losses): 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 mandarin, 4 blue chromis, 1 royal gramma, 1 six-line wrasse, 2 mated gold stripped marron clownfish, 2 mated oscellaris clownfish, 1 flame angel, 2 bartlett anthias, 1 copperband butterflyfish, 1 pacific blue hippo tang (2.5 inches), 1 sailfin tang (2.5 inches), one yellow tang (3 inches), and now powder blue #2 (2nd try). Its been 2 months and he still has 1-2 ich spots but is getting fat behind the head. There were mean fights between powder blue and Mr. Sailfin, both had scars, but they have now split the tank in half and stay out of each others turf. They are almost exactly the same size. On restocking I didnt even QT: I just bought a 40W UV sterilizer and ran the pump through at 170 gallons per hour. I would not advise this, I just am very impatient. I also have 5 cleaner shrimp. I also overfeed: there are always 2 clips of ogo algae for the stars (tangs) of my tank to graze. I feed daily live brine and live blood worms. I also have an autofeeder that feeds 3x a day: fine coarse pellets, cyclops flake, 2 different alage flakes, brine shrimp flake, and stuff for the acros. The waste that results makes me change my filter sock twice weekly; I think it also filters out a lot of the parasites. I change 15g (20%) of water every Saturday morning. I also have a dozen clams and calurpa in the sump that export nitrate. I also have a lot of flow: around 60x turnover/hr. I am alrady making room for a larger tank in the wall/fish room tank where all these guys will go as obviously I am overstocked. What is the minimum size i need given my situation?
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:58 AM   #2
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Wow... gotta say - that's quite a paragraph on what NOT to do with a tank! But at least you're not in denial!

Regarding your question, I can't answer it, but I'm sure someone that can will be along soon. All I know is the answer will probably be waaaay larger than you're thinking.

Since you're looking at changing tanks, I'd take that opportunity to break the ich cycle once and for all. From what I've read, UV isn't going to do it for you, and it's obvious you never got rid of it from the first time. Cleaner shrimp won't deal with it either. If it were me...

Get the new tank up and running, cycle it, then move over your inverts (corals, snails, crabs, etc). Don't bring over any of the old sand or any of the water, but bring over your live rock if you're planning on it. Leave your fish in your old tank. Then do hyposalinity on your old tank with the fish in it. Follow these instructions...

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment

While your fish are undergoing hypo to kill off the ich, let your new tank go fishless for 6-8 weeks. That will kill any ich that might have come over with the rocks or inverts. At the end of that 6-8 week period, both tanks should now be free of ich and you can transfer your fish back over to your new main.

Here's a good series if you haven't read it already...

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:00 AM   #3
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Lightbulb gotta push the envelope

Advice taken . Thank you. I am thiking 300 gallons???
But honestly, I knew that I was pushing it on several levels. But what is the fun of taking the revered experts advice as gospel when they dont sit in front of my tank? This hobby is exhilerating after all. Enjoy your fish, coral, etc., know your limits, push your limits and do they best you can knowing that everything you put in your tank will die eventually. Just keep swimming...
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Old 04-27-2008, 10:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayray View Post
But what is the fun of taking the revered experts advice as gospel when they dont sit in front of my tank? This hobby is exhilerating after all. Enjoy your fish, coral, etc., know your limits, push your limits and do they best you can knowing that everything you put in your tank will die eventually. Just keep swimming...
I dont really agree with pushing the limits and that everything will eventually die. As Aquarist responsibility overides fun. Yes this hobby is fun and exillerating but not at the expense of responsibility that we have to provide a good enviornment to those that are in our tanks. I have several fish that are at least 10 yrs old and I could give you several reasons but I choose not to push the limits. Yes to your question I think 300 gallon tank would be an appropriate size. As Kurt said nip the ick problem or it will haunt you for a long time.
Also I split this from the other post as it hijacked his thread. In the future it`s better to start you own thread instead of tacking it on someone elses thread. I`ll just change this one and you`ll know in the future. Have a good day
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:54 AM   #5
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I fear that you will add more fish once you get a 300

The filter sock and UV can only capture/kill the Ich parasite during the free swimming stage which is very short. Please read the articles that Kurt linked to so you understand the life cycleof Ich.

I also have to agreee that a marine aquarium is not a place for pushing the envelope unless it is part of a scientific research study.

Also, why do you feel the need to overfeed? I feel that I overfeed WHEN I feed, which is once every 2 - 3 days. I supplement the tangs/herbivores with nori on the other days. When I feed I also feed the corals and clam. I shut down the main pump for an hour, but leave the power heads goings to distribute food to all parts of the tank.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:51 PM   #6
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Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!:sm ilecolros:
WOW...that is quite a stocking list. My first suggestion may be to remove some of the fish until such time as you can provide the proper housing for them. If looking at a larger tank, then I would say a 220-300gal would be in order for the number of fish you currently have. If you intend to keep this stock list and add additional fish to it I would look for an even bigger tank.

I do disagree with pushing the limits. These are animals afterall. As aquarists we should challenge ourselves with providing the optimal enviornment, not the minimal.

You are correct...everything does die eventually but we should do our best to prevent premature death while providing the best possible housing for our animals.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:43 PM   #7
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Wow! That is some great advice. This sounds like news stories I read about when they go into a house and there is a woman/man that has over 300 cats living there. The conditions are terrible. The fact that the person loves cats and keeps getting more, which leads to inhumane conditions (both for the animals and person), is somewhat identical to your situation.
I love this hobby and don't push the envelope. I have to respect the animals and provide for them the same way I do for my dog.
I think the larger tank is the way to go and both you, your animals and visitors will get way more enjoyment out of the huge, beautiful display you are planning.
Also, we will require pics of your new tank!
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Old 04-27-2008, 04:20 PM   #8
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What is your time frame for getting the new tank set up?
If not mistaken I count 20 fish including 4 tangs in a 75, and a brewing case of Ich. I understand that they are young and small, but my blue tang has doubled in size in just a few months.

RayRay, you need to start moving some fish to another home before you lose them again.
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:42 AM   #9
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Lightbulb powder blue advice

I was just trying to share my limited experience with powder blues and what I feed them. Like I stated, both my 1st one and this one started eating slowly: only live food in the form of mysis, ogo and stuff on the rocks. Then it took to frozen mysis, sea veggies and eventually flake voraciously. Then it started to get phat (fat/grow), regaining its spectacular color, and beating HLLE. It will eventually beat ich. Most of all, I wanted to show that a guy like me who has only been in reef fish/coral for less then 2 years can keep this fish. I encourage others to keep trying intelligently and responsibly.

I mentioned the overfeeding part because I think its part of why all the fish do well (especially the anthias). Only powder blue has 1-2 ich spots, in 2 months all the other tangs have had none. He WILL eventually show no symptoms of it despite ich obviously being in the tank; the 1st should have been okay last time if I were more vigilent with my equipment - that is another thread. To quarantine or not is also the subject of another thread, but obviously I have not.

My rant: Yes, I am overstocked because I (& my 3 sons) are so fascinated with these colorful fish and coral. I didnt even mention all the SPS and inverts I have. But the water quality is excellent and everything is thriving. Thanks for the upgrade advice - will look for that on the appropriate thread.
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