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Old 11-05-2004, 11:07 AM   #11
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Wow, scary indeed. What really need to be done to help our cause is we need to get out LFS's in line. I know its easy to say, but once this comes into the mainstream light, you can bet the news media will be combing the LFS's looking for a negative story. Unfortunately these stories would not be hard to find at this time.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:16 AM   #12
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It certainly makes you think twice about bringing a little part of the ocean into your home. If we all love this hobby, we should all be very concerned about what it is potentially doing to the natural reefs. It is our responsibility to seek out info on fish collection. Stop buying fish collected in the Phillipeans. Start buying acu-cultured LR and corals to decrease the havesting in the wild. Buy captive breed fish instead of wild caught ones. Honestly, if today I was told I needed to stop keeping a reef tank due to it's envirornmental impact I would. I love this hobby but not enough to destroy the natural reefs so my kids will never have the chance to see them. I do not want to be responsible for that.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:52 AM   #13
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This ISNT new. The coral reef task force was created by Bill Clinton when he was president. It is this task force that has presented the information of sustanable harvest. LIke I said above I have known about this for well over a year now and it seems like only when someone takes it so far out of reality like the e-mail Tim is refering to does this get any attention.
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Old 11-05-2004, 11:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Stop buying fish collected in the Phillipeans. Start buying acu-cultured LR and corals to decrease the havesting in the wild. Buy captive breed fish instead of wild caught ones.
Not all Phillipean collectors use cyianide or even worse dynimite to collect. Its the worse of the collectors that give the rest who do use nets a bad rap. I 100% agree with buying aquacultured corals when possible. I belive in this so much I request anyone that gets a frag from me to give me their word they will frag the coral when its large enough and give to others in the hobby. Im proud to say most of my corals I know are frags from others tanks and it gives me great pleasure in giving them away so as to continue the aquaculture experence.

Quote:
Honestly, if today I was told I needed to stop keeping a reef tank due to it's envirornmental impact I would.
Overall OUR impact on the reefs is very small as compaired to other problems like polution, sewage run off, global warming events causing mass bleaching and even the asian food importers.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:36 PM   #15
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Overall OUR impact on the reefs is very small as compaired to other problems like polution, sewage run off, global warming events causing mass bleaching and even the asian food importers.
You hit the nail on the head there. Places like Japan, dwarf us with the imports of exotic fish and inverts for different foods. Look at the shark finning problem.
It is a touchy subject, I sometimes post on a scuba diving board and they frequently badmouth our hobby. I tried to defend it one time and was body slammed big time.
I know this is nothing new, but of we really want to do something about it (short of our own lobby group), we need to clean up this hobby here at home. This site and others like it go a long way to educate new hobbiests on how to do things right and be responsible. I think we can also help by leaning on the bad LFS out there. I'm serious, when this comes into the mainstream media light, trust me they won't help our cause.
Encourage people to buy tank raised stock when possible, trading of coral frags, using aquacultured rock and corals will help. As well as steering ourselves and other from the bad LFS's until they clean up their act. Also to tell them why we are not frequenting them, or eductate them on proper husbandry. Give them something to think about.
I'm guilty, there is one LFS chain here in Cleveland (I'm sure Tim knows who) that is just horrid. I still, out of convenience stop there for dry good sometimes, feeling guilty for doing so.
I normally don't like to hurt any business. But if a business is hurting the hobby with neglect or greed, I will not hesitate. Especially places like Petco. I'm sure CNN will run to them when the spotlight turns to the subject. I guess what I'm trying to say is, lets police the part of the hobby that we have some power over.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:43 PM   #16
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Correct. Education is the #1 thing we need to do. This is why once more information is published on the 2005 MACNA your gonna see me pushing it VERY hard here suggesting to any member that has the potental to attend to do so. Last years MACNA was a huge success and next years promises to be even bigger with the focus on eduction and responsible reefkeeping.

Its my belive that education is #1 that this site was created. Me and kevin feel very strongly about educating the hobbists. I urge everyone to check otu some of the links I posted above. I hope to form some kind of colaboration agreement with Reef Protection International once they are ready. My understandings from e-mail conversaions with the Director is that they are in the midst of a total restructure of their website that will include many educational resources for the hobbists.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:58 PM   #17
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I know which store it is. it's the same one that refused to let me leave flyers when i was in the contest for the RO/DI. said by doing that he would be hurting his buisness. I havn't been back since. there is one i use for livestock and one for dry goods, and he is neither.

We used to have a really nice privatly owned LFS on detroit in Lakewood. It was called Undersea world. It burned down some years ago and they lost everything. Insurance paid for what they had instock and there wasn't enough for them to start back up. I'm sorry there gone.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:00 PM   #18
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If we are responsible and like you said, trade frags and so on, wouldn't we be keeping alive species that may be extinct due to global warming and so on? I think it's something that the government should think about. Garf has hundreds of traded corals and they sell what is aquacultured by them for these very same reason. My tank is pretty big and I have tons of space for more corals, but I have over twenty different kinds in my tank already, they are just small. They are growing fast, and I think with a little patience, I will be helping the cause by being just that, patient. I have broken my own rule a time or two and bought a coral not knowing if it was aquacultured (probabally not), but for the most part I try by animals that have been tank raised. I think that if LFS's were required to collect only tank raised specimins or animals that were not harmed in the process and are in abundance that it would go a long ways. Course this would very quickly be more expensive than it already is . But wouldn't it be worth it?
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:05 PM   #19
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thats a good point. We could all propigat ten percent of our corals back to the oceans in a re population effort.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:20 PM   #20
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If we really want to get radical, a section could be created for LFS reviews. A statement releasing the site owners of responsibility for any comments left could be draws up and posted.
Of course criteria would be need to screen out the "sour grapes" posts. this would give new users some kind of guide to go by, as well as the possibility of waking up a few of the offenders.
Also would want to exclude comments about the sites sponsors to preserve their good, earned reputations.
I know, probably too radical of an idea.
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